This week on Divorce at Altitude, we break our usual mold and turn the spotlight to our very own Elizabeth Rose Hardman, a senior associate at our firm, Kalamaya | Goscha. We talk about the journey that brought her from the icy plains of Alaska to the challenges of Colorado's courtrooms. As Elizabeth shares her passion for justice and her knack for problem-solving, you'll get a first-hand account of how her personal connection to law led her to advocate for her clients in family law and criminal defense.
What is Divorce at Altitude?
Ryan Kalamaya and Amy Goscha provide tips and recommendations on issues related to divorce, separation, and co-parenting in Colorado. Ryan and Amy are the founding partners of an innovative and ambitious law firm, Kalamaya | Goscha, that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado.
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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS ON THIS PODCAST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE. CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE OR AREA TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.
Hey everyone. I'm Ryan Kalamaya.Amy Goshca:
And I'm Amy Goscha.Ryan Kalamaya:
Welcome to the Divorce at Altittude, a podcast on Colorado family law.Amy Goshca:
Divorce is not easy. It really sucks. Trust me, I know. Besides being an experienced Divorce attorney, I'm also a Divorce client.Ryan Kalamaya:
Whether you or someone considering Divorce or a fellow family law attorney, listen in for weekly tips and insight into topics related to Divorce co-parenting. And separation in Colorado. Welcome back to another episode of Divorce at Altitude. This is Ryan Kalamaya. This week, we're going to have a little bit different episode. We're going to be joined by our senior associate with our firm, Kalamaya Goscha, Elizabeth Rose Hardman. We've had her on This is a podcast before talking about premarital agreements. This one is going to take a little bit different approach. We're going to find out a little bit more about what makes Elizabeth tick and who she is for any attorney or person out there. So it's going to be a little bit more of a background and biography on Elizabeth. With that in mind, Elizabeth, welcome to the show. Can you tell people just a little bit about your background and we'll kind of dig into various aspects, but for listeners that don't know who you are who is Elizabeth Rose Hartman?Elizabeth Hardman:
Well, I became an attorney in 2017. I started off in the public defender's office up in Weld County in Greeley. And I stayed there for a couple of years. I handled a large number of misdemeanor. Criminal matters for adults, and then I had the opportunity to go to juvenile court, which has always been a passion of mine. So I spent a good amount of time in that realm. I have slowly segued into also handling some family law cases. And I, I'm sure I'll talk a little bit more about that, but that's my background legally speaking. Personally, I am originally from Eagle River, Alaska. I love the. Outdoors, the scenery there, it is just beautiful. And I made my way to Colorado for law school and met my husband and now we live here in the Denver metro area.Ryan Kalamaya:
And for listeners, Elizabeth is very humble in in how she presents herself. We have had. Two at the time of this recording annual retreats that Elizabeth has participated. She's been with our firm for, much longer than that, but they, our retreats were interrupted with, with COVID. But we had last year we had an axe throwing contest and Elizabeth just shocked everyone, but it shouldn't have been a shock at her. Axe throwing skills. And then this year, Elizabeth, you came out of nowhere with some, insane golf at, at Topgolf. I believe you were the number one player throughout the whole firm.Elizabeth Hardman:
It was a surprise to me too, actually. I have played a bit of golf more for fun growing up with my family and then into adulthood, but I, I was having a great day. And I know Caitlin at our firm also was joining in on that. So it was a great time.Ryan Kalamaya:
Yeah. So Elizabeth, let's go back to you going to, to law school. You mentioned you, you came to Colorado for, for law school. What motivated you from Alaska growing up there to go to law school specifically in Colorado? And why did you go to, to law school in the first place?Elizabeth Hardman:
I actually became involved in a Problem solving court in Anchorage called Anchorage Youth Court when I was in middle school. And I really, really loved it. And so the way that the Anchorage Youth Court worked is it was teens and the community would sign up and would effectively act as the defense attorneys. Sometimes the prosecuting attorneys and then the judges. We would have three panel judges. For diversion I guess the diversionary program really for juveniles. So it was really something that I enjoyed. I liked in particular being a defense attorney for my peers and just talking to them and really that personal connection and level and being able to defend them. I really connected with and that carried me all the way to law school. As far as. What brought me to Denver in between undergrad, where I went to school in the University of Idaho and then also law school, I returned to Alaska for a couple of years and actually was a paralegal at Dillon Finley, a local medical malpractice firm. And I had taken a work trip to Denver and just liked the area. I like that you have mountains, which is hard to find coming from Alaska. So I thought it was a great way for me to come to a new state, keep some of my old roots and on top of that, DU had a really great program for. Clinical work where you can actually act as a student attorney in the courtroom and get that first chance at hands on experience, which I really benefited from.Ryan Kalamaya:
Well, to switch gears Elizabeth, let's kind of get into what is a day in a life? of Elizabeth Rose Hardman, an attorney and senior associate at Kalamaya Gosha. Can you for listeners that don't know, I mean it's kind of hard to define for a lawyer, I know what a typical day is, but can you give us some idea of what a day looks like for you?Elizabeth Hardman:
It is very hard to define. I, it really depends on the day. Some days I spend quite an amount of time in court handling cases, whether they're plea agreements I might be negotiating with the DA reviewing discovery, and all of this in regard to criminal cases, of course. For family law, I spend a lot of time speaking with my clients, trying to figure out how to resolve their cases in a positive way. And a lot, a lot of the legal field in general is putting out fires that seem to happen on a kind of an ongoing basis, right? There's a, in particular, in family law you aren't. I'm going to send you all the links to theRyan Kalamaya:
various files in the description of this video. Have a great day. You do, work most of the, not most of the time, but you do tend to work a little bit on the later side, right?Elizabeth Hardman:
Yes. I, I do like working at night. I don't know what it is probably because it's quiet and it feels like there's not much activity around so I can really dig in. Especially in those research and writing projects that I need to do. It's really a prime time for me.Ryan Kalamaya:
Yeah. For listeners that are hearing Elizabeth, I mean, she, within our firm, I mean, everyone has their different. Roles obviously, I have a different personality and role within our firm compared to Amy and Elizabeth does our appellate work. She drafts the premarital and marital agreements. She does a lot of research. She's. One of our strong writers and really enjoys, I think it's fair to say, Elizabeth, that you really enjoy the research and the higher level intellectual challenges and the drafting aspects of what we do as lawyers.Elizabeth Hardman:
Absolutely true. As you can imagine, with. The law that's created, you can almost always find a situation that doesn't squarely fall within the law that's created. And so it's really interesting to figure out, okay, well, how should you solve this unique problem? How does this situation for your client differ from what the court was contemplating in this other case and what, what's fair here for your client?Ryan Kalamaya:
Is that sense of fairness and the intellectual challenge, is that what keeps you motivated and passionate? I mean, we deal with a lot of people will say, well, Ryan, man I couldn't do that. It's just too exhausting or it's just too emotional. So, what keeps you motivated and passionate, Elizabeth?Elizabeth Hardman:
The interest in those legal issues and trying to figure out fair solutions to them, but I think at the core, for me, it's always been about helping people and trying to get them through a really tough time in their lives. It's, it can be really hard and, and really sad and so I think just trying to be almost like a rock for, for your clients who need someone to just protect their interests and help guide them in the right direction.Ryan Kalamaya:
Now, you mentioned you do criminal defense within our firm on the, on the front range as well as some cases up in the mountains. Can you give, if Eric Wolf, are hypothetical divorce client. If Eric Wolf, gets pulled over for a DUI or has some sort of domestic dispute what, is there a tip or, piece of advice that you have for Eric if he's going through a criminal case?Elizabeth Hardman:
Yes I could give a lot of advice on that, of course, but first and foremost the number one Piece of advice I would give is not to speak about what may or may not have happened in your case to law enforcement. And that can be really tough, especially for people who haven't been through the criminal justice system before. They want to explain themselves and, and explain that they aren't a bad person. And unfortunately, it can get them in a hot water when they might say something that can cause more issues for them and in the legal process. So, 1st and foremost, just you can politely decline not to speak to the police until you have an attorney and then immediately get an attorney involved. That's always going to be number 1.Ryan Kalamaya:
Yeah, for those that listen, I mean, this is a. Family Law Divorce at Altitude or Divorce Podcast, but Elizabeth spends the vast majority of her criminal defense work trying to undo what people have either said or done in front of law enforcement and she is very good at that and has had, several cases just outright dismissed and is really, brings a lot to bear for the criminal defense cases, but switching gears again, Elizabeth for Eric Wolf, if he's going through a divorce or Melanie Wolf on the flip side, going through a divorce. What kind of advice or things do you think, they would want to know about you or their, divorce? If that's their situation.Elizabeth Hardman:
Yeah. So about the divorce, I would say in family law, it's really easy to lose sight of the bigger picture for clients because it's such an emotionally charged environment. You're going through such a rough time with your spouse that it can be hard, for example, if you have children to really be thinking about, is this parenting plan schedule that I'm trying to enter into, or trying to advocate for, is this really about what's convenient for me? Or is this what's in the children's best interest? Is this, how they're developmentally going to be in the best position possible? So that's, that's a huge one. And same thing or similar when you're talking about a more financially driven case where the focus really should not be on fighting every little issue that comes up in the case. Because you're upset, but really taking a step back and saying, okay what's the pro of fighting this? What's the con of it? How can we easily resolve this and minimize the financial and emotional damage?Ryan Kalamaya:
Well, let's wrap things up, Elizabeth, and talk about future challenges and opportunities. From your perspective, what are Some pressing legal challenges or where do you see yourself going within the legal field.Elizabeth Hardman:
Sure. I don't know if it's a legal challenge, but something that I've been thinking a lot in my practice is how to incorporate AI into what we're doing, but also maintain a social connection with clients and make sure we're providing that first hand service that everyone expects.Ryan Kalamaya:
It's certainly something that we've talked a lot about in the firm about how do you balance the automation and the kind of cookie cutter aspects of AI but also the liberation from doing the kind of pretty basic work and how that can enable us as lawyers to really meet our clients where they need us and that is in the relationship and providing that customized high level, legal guidance through very difficult times. So. I completely agree with you, Elizabeth, and I know that you have developed some very, deep relationships with clients, you mentioned about going through difficult times and helping people, and I know you've helped a lot of people. For our firm and we'll continue to do so in the future. And certainly AI is going to be part of that, that journey with you and a client. Well hopefully listeners have have a much better idea of Elizabeth Rose Hartman. She is one of our key team members within the firm and we're, really grateful for what she does. And I know that clients, have speaking, spoken, about how. What she has made an impact in their life. And, we're grateful for the time. So Elizabeth, thank you for joining us. ThankElizabeth Hardman:
you so much for having me.Ryan Kalamaya:
Until next time, this is Ryan Kalamaya for Divorce at Altitude signing off. hey everyone. This is Ryan again. Thank you for joining us on Divorce at Altittude. If you found our tips, insight, or discussion helpful, please tell a friend about this podcast. For show notes, additional resources or links mentioned on today's episode, visit Divorce at Altittude dot com. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen in. Many of our episodes are also posted on YouTube. You can also find Amy and. Law or 9 7 0 3 1 5 2 3 6 5. That's aaa.