Exploring the Intersection of Law, Music, and Sports with Chip Dunn | Episode 177

Join us as we invite our associated attorney, Chip Dunn, to share his personal journey into the field of law. From a young age, Chip's parents instilled in him a strong sense of service which eventually led him to law school in Charleston, South Carolina. His dedication and passion have seen him practice family law and bankruptcy in Minnesota before returning to Colorado. In this chat, Chip offers a unique perspective on family law, especially in dissolution cases, and shares his commitment to assist clients navigate the emotional and financial challenges of divorce. 

This episode also brings out Chip's personal interests, revealing his love for the music industry, his affinity for the English Premier League, and his support for Crystal Palace. He also discusses his time working in the legal and business affairs office for Warner Music and his love for playing records on his turntable. Chip's story is an interesting blend of law, service, music, and sports, showing the multi-faceted nature of his personality. Tune in to hear Chip's inspiring journey and his passion for helping others in their time of need.

What is Divorce at Altitude?

Ryan Kalamaya and Amy Goscha provide tips and recommendations on issues related to divorce, separation, and co-parenting in Colorado. Ryan and Amy are the founding partners of an innovative and ambitious law firm, Kalamaya | Goscha, that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado.

To subscribe to Divorce at Altitude, click here and select your favorite podcast player. To subscribe to Kalamaya | Goscha's YouTube channel where many of the episodes will be posted as videos, click here. If you have additional questions or would like to speak to one of our attorneys, give us a call at 970-429-5784 or email us at info@kalamaya.law.

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS ON THIS PODCAST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE. CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE OR AREA TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.

Transcript

Ryan Kalamaya: 0:03

Hey everyone. I'm Ryan Kalamaya.

Amy Goshca: 0:05

And I'm Amy Goscha.

Ryan Kalamaya: 0:07

Welcome to the Divorce at Altittude, a podcast on Colorado family law.

Amy Goshca: 0:12

Divorce is not easy. It really sucks. Trust me, I know. Besides being an experienced Divorce attorney, I'm also a Divorce client.

Ryan Kalamaya: 0:20

Whether you or someone considering Divorce or a fellow family law attorney, listen in for weekly tips and insight into topics related to Divorce co-parenting. And separation in Colorado. Welcome back to another episode of Divorce at Altitude. This is your co host, Ryan Kalamaya. This week, we are going to be joined by one of our associate attorneys, Chip Dunn, so people can learn a little bit more about the team behind Amy and Me at Kalamaya Gosha and an opportunity to hear different perspectives on how people became lawyers and the work that we do. So, Chip, why don't you we'll First of all, welcome to the show. Yeah. Thanks for having me,

Chip Dunn: 1:05

Ryan.

Ryan Kalamaya: 1:06

So can you, for the listeners that don't know you as well as I do can you tell them a little bit about yourself and specifically how you came to be a lawyer?

Chip Dunn: 1:17

Yeah, no problem. Love the show. First time caller, long time listener. I'm from Denver. I've been here since I've been four years old. My mom was a teacher, my father worked for the federal government, so he's, we have two parents who have basically showed us to serve to serve our communities. My brother is a doctor, he lives in Casper and so it was natural for me, as the youngest, who's always questioning authority, always asking all the questions. To become a lawyer. I think I was probably destined to be a lawyer as a young child.

Ryan Kalamaya: 1:49

And, how did you end up going to law school and then come back? That's, part of your journey, but can you tell listeners a little bit about the journey to Kalamaya Goscha through law

Chip Dunn: 2:01

school? Yeah. So I'm, I'm from Denver. I love Denver. But I love, given my family background, we like, we've traveled a lot, we've lived in other places, and for me, going to school in Colorado just really wasn't Something I was hoping for. I was really looking for new experiences and I found my way in Charleston, South Carolina. And, it came down to, and you'll appreciate this, Ryan, because you obviously went to law school. When you're thinking about law school, you're thinking of the school year. And everybody loves, Boston or New York or all those places. And I was looking at those those cities for schools. But I wasn't going to be there during the good times of the year. The summer. Whatever. I was going to be there when it was January, February. So it came down to the January test for me and Charleston being on the beach, being a little bit warmer, it was naturally going to be better for me and my studying if I, could at least enjoy that work life balance and not just be in the throes of it. And I love those cities, but it came down to the January test, and that's why I selected Charleston.

Ryan Kalamaya: 3:07

Yeah. I played some baseball in Charleston when in college, and I mean, it is a phenomenal city. What why didn't you stay if it was so, if the weather at the January, why why not stay after law school?

Chip Dunn: 3:20

That's a great question and probably a loaded one, and maybe for our next podcast episode of, southern living. But realistically for me, I wanted to live down there and experience it, but then I wanted to leave. It's always been a function of me coming back to Denver. My family's still here. I love the mountains so much. I do love the beach, but I'm definitely a mountain guy. I, I love to ski and be outside as much as possible. And obviously you're outside at the beach, but it's just a different. And I think it was great to go to school there. It's great to visit. It's great to study. But I am thankful to be back in Denver where I truly belong.

Ryan Kalamaya: 3:58

Now, Kalamaya Gosha, wasn't the first law firm that you've worked for. And so for, clients, I mean, what is the kind of work that you do and as kind of part of that. Can you tell people a little bit more about where you worked and not necessarily the names, but the kinds of work that you did before joining our firm?

Chip Dunn: 4:18

Sure. You mentioned earlier, about my journey and it is kind of a journey because it's not linear, college law school work. I've kind of been all over the place and that's just sort of a flexibility of my personality. I was practicing law in Minnesota for three years, the last three years or actually I've been here for a year now, but so my, I lived in Minnesota. I practiced family law there as well as bankruptcy law. And, I've, I worked as a paralegal previously in the metro area of Denver doing family law. So I'd been around family law for a long time. I practiced family law in Minnesota and, but I added. The wrinkle of bankruptcy, and it was fascinating because it was right during Covid, which obviously was a financial hardship for a lot of people. So I was, having to do some pretty emotionally serious work during a pretty chaotic time financially for a lot of people. During

Ryan Kalamaya: 5:13

COVID. Right. And so you, for us, you're mostly handling family law matters on the front range. And can you give, an idea of what are the kinds of cases that you think that your strengths really lend themselves to? Is it bank, divorces involving bankruptcy issues? Or can you give a little flavor of things that. You've worked on and the things that you really gravitate to when it comes to issues or people or other, things I think listeners can, pick up that you have a great sense of humor and you work well I know that you work well with a variety of people. So, but maybe to drill down on that what are the kind of issues and types of clients and cases that you you think you're particularly good at?

Chip Dunn: 5:58

Well, family law is amazing because it touches everybody. Everyone is affected by family law. And I think, to sort of drill down on this, I've worked with a lot of dissolution cases, just normal divorce cases. I've done some high net worth divorce cases. I've done a lot of some cases where there's Domestic violence involved where there's child welfare issues involved when there's grandparent visitation issues involved, what's nice about family laws is for being such a difficult area of law. It is the cover so much. It's covers a ton of different. So yes, I have experience in bankruptcies. I don't do so much of that right now, but right now I'm working in a lot of cases. I've had a few cases that are domestic violence. There's a lot of domestic violence flavor with that which means there's a criminal element as well. I'm obviously not a criminal defense. But we do work hand in hand, with criminal defense attorneys, sometimes with our clients and really I love advocating for families. I love advocating for children, and I love advocating for my clients. And when you're in, a, if it's high conflict or low conflict, it's emotional. And divorces are very difficult. And I feel that one of my strengths is how I can just meet the client where they are, help them, shepherd them through this. It's pretty terrible, pretty, not terrible, but rough experience during the, this rough chapter in their life, I should say in a way that is not, trying to make the process less overwhelming so that they can feel that they're not getting, screwed over or that they feel like they're not losing. I mean, everybody feels that way, Ryan. In a divorce case. But really it's my job to advocate for the best interest of my client, advocate for the best interest for the children, and really try not to burn everything down. Because most of the time these cases, Brian, these people have to, if they have kids, they have to, a lot of'em are gonna have to co-parent for the rest of their lives. So my job is to get them through this process in a way that. I can set them self up for the rest of their lives. I always talk to my clients and they say, you're about to go through a period of renaissance. This is going to be a dark time for you. These next few months or however long this divorce process is, and I'm just speaking about divorces right now, through this divorce process. But once that's over, you get a fresh start seemingly. You get to have this, 2. 0, this renaissance of your time, of your life, and the feel that, a lot of lawyers miss that mark, and they just... They just want to get them through and just be done with it. And for me, it's an investment of my time, investment of my energy and investment of my care for these clients that are going through this difficult time in their life.

Ryan Kalamaya: 8:47

Yeah. One thing, clarification, or at least I want to make sure that, we, eh, we're on the same page with is when you say that, people, they always. Lose or at least something that I think that they feel like, maybe not that they're losing, but that they're the ones that are compromising. What I hear is like in our hypothetical divorce scenario, Eric and Melanie Wolf, Eric will always come to us and say, I feel like I am the only one compromising. Melanie's not doing anything. I mean, there is, like, no necessarily winning in a divorce because that, assumes that there's a loser. And there are certain circumstances, where relocation I kind of consider that there are, some winners and losers in those kinds of cases. You can also go to trial. on a particular issue and the judge could side with the party and they could be winning but overall We're not like there's not winning and losing except for what you mentioned and that is when people Three years from now come to us and they say I understood what You know, I understood everything I made choices and like, I'm glad that I was able to go through that experience not because it was an enjoyable experience, but I'm glad you were the one that was on my side and I am in a good position. I mean, I'm happier. I'm healthier and I have a good relationship with you. My co parent and, but is that kind of what you meant chip and the sense of, walking people through that experience?

Chip Dunn: 10:22

Exactly. And that's great clarification because, It's incumbent as us as lawyers to explain the law, to explain the path forward or, the case strategy or what we think, we never guarantee what a judge will say or do. We can just kind of say this is, these are habits. This is. tis typical or something, but it's incumbent on us as attorneys to make sure that we provide our clients with all the information because I find the client, it's it's up to me to be able to, as we're saying, Shepard does not. My clients through this process, but telling them, frankly, this position may not be a turnable position. This, you need to take a step back and, see the forest and not the trees or whatever that phrase is, but, It's sad when I hear, cause a lot of times we'll have clients maybe call us and say, I don't really like my counsel or whatever. And it's like, that, as someone who truly cares about the law, it almost breaks my heart because it's an expensive process, an emotional process, and it's up to the lawyers to make sure that they are providing the wisdom and the knowledge and the empathy. Get them through this and I have found that if you're able to do that effectively, the chances of them saying, oh, I've won or lost are low. They're just going to say, yeah, that was tough. You have to give a little bit, you got to take a little bit. And then if you go to trial, obviously the judge is going to weigh in. However, the judge is going to rule we, the best that we can do is put our best case forward and argue

Ryan Kalamaya: 11:53

argue our case. Well, I know you've handled some mountain cases. It's not just exclusively to the front range and some Western slope cases in Mesa County. We have, we're going to record a separate podcast on. Invalidating separation agreements. I know that is one area that you have had some experience with in terms of issues. But Chip, can you tell me a little bit about what are the things that you think Kalamaya Gosha, like our firm does, that's different from the other firms that you've worked within or against where are the kind of things that you think. are different about and that you've had to get used to in the last, year that you've had to learn.

Chip Dunn: 12:34

Yeah, no, that's a great question. And actually this is my one year anniversary of being with the firm. What I, I think the biggest thing is Technology. What this firm uses the amount of technology and the focus of using technologies firm is far and away better than any firm that I've ever been part of or that I've worked with a lot of, I've even had law mentors that have called themselves, technological dinosaurs. You hear that a lot with a lot of the older crowd who's, I think it's been practicing for a long time and they're just, they're, they're been practicing forever and they're brilliant legal minds, but they're missing this, this technology component, and it's become such a big part of the practice of law that it's almost passing by a lot of these firms who just refuse to change or refuse to innovate. So I think, just a great segue into innovation is also, a major foundation of what this firm is all about, because, if. We have these workflows and what I love about this firm is that we try them out. We try new things. We try cutting edge things. If they don't work, we don't force the issue. We make changes. We see, we try to figure, we try to problem solve and see, well, what else could we do that could maximize or make us more efficient in our. Our work that ultimately benefits the clients because the less time that we can work on knucklehead things and put it to AI or whatever, is it's only going to benefit the attorneys. And more importantly, it's only going to benefit the clients, and that's what's really important. The big thing for me in just working with other firms is just how focused we are and how well we utilize, is it perfect? No, but how well we utilize our technological resources. And it's impressive with this podcast, with email campaigns, whatever it is, we're just trying to always. And I tell my clients this, how do you eat a whale one bite at a time? And that's basically an APR or a divorce process way to frame it is it's overwhelming. So if we have these emails, we have these podcasts so that they can take their own, the clients can take their own time and ask questions versus just Googling. Random law questions and getting some answer from who knows what the, what the source is, it's better, that way they know that, oh, okay, they've actually thought through this. This is actually based in Colorado law. It's not just some random Google search. It's effective.

Ryan Kalamaya: 14:56

Yeah, and for people that don't know what the workflow is we had just had a firm meeting, but we use internal checklists and they're automatic. So, when you go in for surgery, there's a reason that the doctor puts L on your left leg if you're having surgery. And that's just an internal checklist. And it's like a pilot where, when you're going to fly they have, check this, check that we have the same thing. It's. Yeah. Pretty unusual. It's kind of shocking, but we have, workflows where we make sure and then the other kind of to put into context, which is chip just mentioned about the email campaigns. We have automatic email campaigns that go out to clients to explain various legal issues and also, perspective clients, but really the, the meat and potatoes is like when people hire us we end up sending them automatic emails. We don't charge for it. So, but technology that brings up one of the other issues I wanted to talk to you about. I know you're a big music fan and, there's been a lot of technology, technological change within, music. We have E. D. M. I don't know if you're an E. D. M. Fanship, but why don't you tell clients a little, or people a little bit more about your interest in music?

Chip Dunn: 16:04

Yeah. That's a, that's another great question. I, I've been passionate about the music industry for a long time. I worked in the music industry. I lived in London. I worked for Warner music. In their legal and business affairs office. So I just enjoy the business of music and I enjoy because so much of it is law based. It's obviously the artist, but there's so much of it is the business and the law aspect of it. I am an EDM fan. I like a lot of electronic music. I like a lot of music. I know this is an audio format, but I have my turntables with vinyl records, and my basically in house studio, and, it's, music is just such a passion of mine and such a, such an amazing outlet, and it's... It's a great way to travel to, to go to shows, and it's just a nice way to live my life is going to a lot of music things. I do realize that I probably go to too many shows, but I don't know if that's really true, if there are too many shows to go to, so long as it doesn't take away from my work.

Ryan Kalamaya: 17:01

Well, and another thing that might take a little bit of time away from your work is your focus on the English Premier League and specifically your support of Crystal Palace. So, we can banter about that as we have during our one on one. So for the listeners that don't know, what is, who is Crystal Palace and what is the English Premier League? Yeah, Crystal Palace

Chip Dunn: 17:22

is from South London. They are. South London's number one they are they've been in the Premier League now this is the longest they've been in the Premier League. The Premier League is the top division of football in England, and every country has their own major, we'll say the major leagues but for this, for football, they have, the Premier League is the top, second division is championship, the third division is first and then the 4th Division is, or the 3rd Division is 2nd, whatever. But it's, it gets a little confusing. Ryan Reynolds. Yeah. If you're curious, watch that show on Hulu. But Crystal Palace, it's a smaller team. It's not, I know you're a big Chelsea fan. It's not a big money team. We don't have sovereign wealth or hedge funds from L. A. We're, the owners are former, they're not former, but they're fans that saved the The team from bankruptcy in 2010. But I had season tickets for them when I lived in London. And so I went to all the home and away games. And a lot of friends that are obviously still that have been part of the that have had season tickets since they were born, basically. And one of the guys that is one of my best friends, his dad has had season tickets since the 50s. And every time we'd go to the away games, John would always come with come with us and still goes to away games. And so it's just such a fun community. I love the American sports. I love all things Colorado, but there's just, we don't have that community aspect that football teams have in England, like Crystal Palace or even Chelsea. It's just a different, it's a totally different way to watch sports, but yeah, I'm a big time Crystal Palace fan. Yeah. For

Ryan Kalamaya: 18:54

listeners that don't know what Chip was referencing is I am a Chelsea supporter. I lived in England right after college and was in a house with a bunch of other coaches and teachers. And one of the tennis coaches, he, it was a bunch of South Africans and other Americans. And so the only English. Guy was a Chelsea supporter. And so that is how I came to support Chelsea. And one of my biggest regrets was not ever going to a game, but those the cheering, the songs, the sense of community. I mean, it's not something we do within Kalamaya Gosha, but I think when you have that connection with other like minded people, it's one of the things that I love about sports. And like you are right that the sense of community around these English premier. Teams and I think football or soccer just in general, like the same thing, Barcelona or Real Madrid or, I mean, it is, it's just amazing how passionate they are, but I think it's helpful for people to understand who you are as a person, Chip. And I think it's fantastic that you have these varied interests any kind of parting. Words of advice or observations about, clients that you particularly click with as we wrap it up.

Chip Dunn: 20:07

Well, and I just kind of want to bring it back just at the last thing you just said, just sort of bringing it back to the, to this firm, what, what sets us apart or what's, what's different about our firm. And I think our focus on technology and innovation is, but also this sense of community. We all are like minded people that, you're careful. It's, I can just tell, I've worked in a lot of different firms, all of us have had a lot of different jobs, but the collegiality within the firm and how we all work together, it's not just my caseload, we're all asking questions. I'm asking you, I'm asking Amy Goscha our paralegals are top notch. So, we have that community feel within our firm, which I think is great. And it's attractive to clients because clients don't feel like a number and they don't feel like they get lost in the shuffle because That's just not what we're about.

Ryan Kalamaya: 20:55

Yeah. Well said and thanks for joining us, Chip. And, for those that want to learn a little bit more about substantive areas, we are, there is another episode with Chip speaking on invalidating agreements, but until next time, thanks for joining us on Divorce at Altitude.

Chip Dunn: 21:12

Thanks for having me.

Ryan Kalamaya: 21:14

hey everyone. This is Ryan again. Thank you for joining us on Divorce at Altittude. If you found our tips, insight, or discussion helpful, please tell a friend about this podcast. For show notes, additional resources or links mentioned on today's episode, visit Divorce at Altittude dot com. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen in. Many of our episodes are also posted on YouTube. You can also find Amy and. Law or 9 7 0 3 1 5 2 3 6 5. That's aaa.