Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law

Current Real Estate Market Trends and Divorce with Tina Parks | Episode 45

August 12, 2021 Ryan Kalamaya & Amy Goscha Season 1 Episode 45
Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law
Current Real Estate Market Trends and Divorce with Tina Parks | Episode 45
Show Notes Transcript

Amy Goscha and real estate agent Tina Parks discuss current real estate market trends and give advice to anyone looking to buy or sell their home during a divorce in the current sellers market.

In This Episode

  • Real estate market in 2021
  • How the current market can affect property division in a divorce
  • Tips and tricks for listing a house in this market during a divorce
  • FAQs of parties going through a divorce in the current market


What is Divorce at Altitude? 

Ryan Kalamaya and Amy Goscha provide tips and recommendations on issues related to divorce, separation, and co-parenting in Colorado. Ryan and Amy are the founding partners of an innovative and ambitious law firm, Kalamaya | Goscha, that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado. 

To subscribe to Divorce at Altitude, click here and select your favorite podcast player. To subscribe to Kalamaya | Goscha's YouTube channel where many of the episodes will be posted as videos, click here. If you have additional questions or would like to speak to one of our attorneys, give us a call at 970-429-5784 or email us at [email protected].

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS ON THIS PODCAST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE. CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE OR AREA TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.

Ryan Kalamaya (3s):
Hey everyone. I'm  Ryan Kalamaya and I am Amy Gosha welcome to the divorce at altitude, a podcast on Colorado family law. Divorce is not easy. It really sucks. Trust me. I know, besides being an experienced divorce attorney M also a divorce client, whether you are someone considering divorce or a fellow family law attorney listening for weekly tips and insight into topics related to divorce co-parenting and separation in Colorado.

Amy Goscha (36s):
Welcome back to another Divorce at Altitude episode. My name is Amy Gosha and I'm privileged to have Tina parks with me today who is a real at to her in the Metro area to Tina. How are you doing?

Tina Parks (48s):
I Am great. Thanks for having me on, and it's good to chat with you again,

Amy Goscha (52s):
To Tina. Can you tell me just a little bit about your background, how you got into real estate?

Tina Parks (58s):
Well, prior lifetime, I was in pharmaceutical medical sales and just did not find that as rewarding as I was hoping and have just kind of fallen into real estate in terms of being an investor, probably in 2004, I bought my first property here in Colorado and it's been an amazing rental and I've just been involved in, in that capacity. I've worked in title for some time. So with a great background with the title side of things, worked with a realtor for a few years as well while my kids were young and one to keep myself involved in work. I'm just not wired to be a full-time stay at home. Mom, just not how I, how I functioned. So, but just realize at some point I wanted to get to have my license as well to have that in my back pocket.

Tina Parks (1m 41s):
And recently have been really working more on the investment side with a lot of folks, I do more residential, but as an investor, I have a couple commercial property is that we own, but it just always been on top of the real estate market. It just fascinates me. I think real estate is just one of those things that is ever changing, but it in the long run that it always ends up being a great investment to have. Yeah.

Amy Goscha (2m 2s):
Yeah, yeah. And you have a lot of M you know, besides your real estate experience, a lot of life experience or a mom, you also, for all the people listening who are going through divorce, like, you know what that's like to, you've been they're at 1.0, so you really have, you know, a lot of a experience, not only in real estate, but just life experience. Well,

Tina Parks (2m 22s):
I thank you. I appreciate that because I really do feel like, you know, I remember my dad telling me that, you know, you just don't get it when you were young and it's so true because I think you just kind of, the more you live, the more, you know, and I think, you know, all of us that are a little bit older, I'm in my mid-forties that, you know, you, when you live, you live and learn. And so I think that really is the best way to be able to provide value to other folks. Yeah.

Amy Goscha (2m 43s):
But you're also now happily married, you know, for a long time and

Tina Parks (2m 47s):
Yeah, we're coming on or coming up to 15 years here in a couple of months, which is crazy. But yeah, I, I have been through a divorce. It's not fun. I wouldn't wish it on anybody even when they're amicable, but the good news is that there is someone out there, you know? So I was a very fortunate in a meeting. My husband, is it a Mexican restaurant of all places? So it, it, it's a good, scary for another time. Well,

Amy Goscha (3m 8s):
That's good. You know, like for people going through divorce, there is I guess, a light on the other side. So let's, yeah, let's jump into kinda to, you know, in the market, you know, it's been just kind of a crazy market and Colorado M you know, what are you seeing right now is for you?

Tina Parks (3m 26s):
Oh man. Well, it's not just Colorado. That's the thing, that's it really is going on all over the place. But I just funny, a lot of people will ask, there was like, oh, you guys supposed to be loving this right now is an agent and truth be told, it's really not that fun. It's really difficult on both the sell side and the listing and the, the buyers side, the market. And you probably have heard is just literally bananas. The inventory is so low and there's just still a frenzy of folks that are trying to find a place that's a really tough for the first time home buyers. And it just, I mean, it's you or not, it's not unusual to see things go on for 10 to 20% over asking price.

Amy Goscha (4m 3s):
Yeah. So, I mean, I've seen it on the news and I don't know how recent, but fairly recent words, like multiple offers over list price, you know, is that happening? And I, and I can see as an agent, that's really hard, especially if you represent the higher, you know, it's like if there putting multiple bids in and not getting a, that's probably a very discouraging

Tina Parks (4m 22s):
First off it's setting the expectations from the outset really. I mean, I, I've had to have some difficult conversations with some folks where it went from, Hey, I'm looking for this. I want, I'm hoping that it has white counter, you know, a quartz countertops, X, Y, Z at this price point. And then they realized that they have to really change the things that they're looking for to just be a player in the game. There have been, you know, there's a couple of companies that I've, that I've worked with, that have come up that are offering cash. You know, they, they can make you a cash buyer. There was always like some stipulations that come along with that, or maybe a higher price point, or they are expecting you to do your loan with them. And so that's why they make their money for origination on their loans. So there are some creative ways to help folks become more cash buyers.

Tina Parks (5m 6s):
But I think the biggest thing is setting folks expectation of like, Hey, listen, if you're looking at this price point, we might need to literally reduce your price by a a hundred thousand dollars, knowing that you're going to be able to put an offer in and even compete. So, yeah, I am seeing that on, on the buy side, on the listing side, its it's awesome. It, it really is. I mean, I was looking at some stats from just to wrap the whole in Denver county and the average day on market is like a seven to eight days. And that's the average, but you know, it used to be 45 days was kind of the norm 30 to forty-five days. So for something, you know, if it doesn't go on a contractor for the weekend or some folks are, you know, really kind of creates an interesting psychological thing for buyer's because if something goes to go under contract and the first weekend, then people wonder what's wrong because either over-priced or who knows if, you know, as an agent, I think when I'm working with folks that I'm listening for that conversation of still like, Hey, let's not get too over our skis.

Tina Parks (5m 58s):
Let's not get too greedy. Let's really price it appropriately. The market and the market will dictate where that goes. And I really feel like sometimes listening at a little bit below what you're seeing as comps really sets people up for getting usually more than what they want.

Amy Goscha (6m 12s):
That's good. Yeah. That is good to know. I mean, as a divorce attorney back in, let's call it a 2007, 2008, when there was a kind of the bank crashes, I would joke with my colleagues about people would say, you know, I don't want to keep the house or a essentially the market crashed. So some people's property, it was like under the water. So it's like, you couldn't no one wanted to keep the house, but now we're in this market where everything is very high. So it's always a matter of like, can I actually afford to keep the house or does it need to be listed for sale? Well,

Tina Parks (6m 46s):
And that's a, that's a great point. And I think I'm dealing with some friends of mine who are currently going through. Unfortunately it was pretty contentious divorce. And the difficulty is, is that you can give a, a, a broker price opinion. And if the divorce happens, let's say in two months down the road, it can completely change. I mean, the market has changed drastically in probably the last two months. We've seen, you know, anywhere from six to 12% per month increase in what things are going for now, granted, this is the, the hot time to cell, but I've been really following the market. I've been following quite a few YouTube videos and podcasts, listening to what people are predicting and people are worried, you know, Hey, is this another bubble? And that there's always a Bumble, you know, you've got, there was always this, it just a matter of how high the bubble is versus you know, how small that bubble is, but we're not anything compared to where we were back in 2008, 2009 different factors.

Tina Parks (7m 37s):
You've got, the fed has backed up a lot of the mortgage securities. People who have equity, they're not under water. So I don't think you're going to see this bubble really bursting anytime soon. So to your point with folks is kind of a fight and who keeps the house or whether they can afford it, which a lot of times, if they've been married for a long time keeping the house, it probably makes a lot of sense. It's when it comes down to selling it, you know, where are they going to go next? Yeah. Then

Amy Goscha (8m 1s):
That's a good point where they are going to go next. And so what I'm finding in my cases, you know, it was just a mediation yesterday where the parties owned the property in Avon. And it was a praised for like 200,000 more than it was not even a year ago. And so now they are going to sell it, even though its a property they like to keep because its hard for someone by the other person out. But that's okay because that's not a primary resident, but when it's the primary residence, like you were saying, where are they gonna go? So are you seeing people sell their house now in like rent? Are you seeing that people are actually selling their houses in and buying another house?

Tina Parks (8m 39s):
Well, and again, it, it kinda depends on how much equity they have in their home because if they've got quite a bit of equity and there buying out their soon to be ex, a lot of times they still have enough to go ahead and find another property, have enough down payment, one of the tricks that I've found. And again, it's definitely a sellers market that you can go up to the, up to a 60 day post occupancy agreement. And really a lot of times people are so desperate to get into a home that people are doing post-occupancy agreements for up to two months free of charge. Like they are willing to do that just to get in to the property. I've dealt with that on the buy-side and I've dealt with it on the listing side. So that's a tip or trick that you can use for folks who are like, Hey, I need 30 to 60 days the, to identify in my next property.

Tina Parks (9m 20s):
And so that's, that's one of the things we're able to do on the listing side. Hopefully you can find, you know, you can usually find something in 60 days who just, it's just a tough market right now. I had another gal who was looking to buy back in like October, November. And she's like, Hey, I want to wait until the market like maybe slows down in the spring. And I was like, Hey, you know, it may, it may not. We never know. I highly doubt it will. And sure enough. I mean it, it probably, she probably left about 50 grand on the table just by waiting. And I feel like it's almost the same now that if you have to sell, you know, an an, an, an unfortunate situation, like a divorce, if you have to sell, you know, luckily you've got the equity, you know, sometimes I've dealt with some folks that they have other properties that they've owned. And so they've decided to not have those be rentals anymore.

Tina Parks (10m 1s):
Like maybe splitting those assets and moving into one of those. But in terms of buying I, the prediction and in the Denver area was that things are still going to be appreciating anywhere from like, I think they say six to 10% of the next year, and that's probably being conservative. And even then, I mean, if you buy now, you're still buying high, but I think it's still a good investment for folks. So if you could, it just a matter of being able to get in depending on where they are in that price point.

Amy Goscha (10m 25s):
Yeah. I know in my own situation, you know, because I moved from the mountains to Denver, I bought my house in the Denver area in October of 2020 and felt like I was buying at the top of the market, but at my house is appreciated, you know, a good, you know, it, it hasn't been appraise, but a good, a a hundred to 200,000 such a short period of time.

Tina Parks (10m 45s):
We are in a gray area to, I mean, I feel like that's not absurd. It's people are nervous. You know, I met with people thinking that they bought high in 2014, 2015, shoot my husband and I laugh. There was no way we, you would afford our house. Now, I guess we would have been able to sell our old house high, but usually you want to buy low, sell high, but your selling high, and then you're buying high. And I think, again, we're still appreciating the Denver market is really looking strong. The economy is doing well here. We still have numerous companies that are moving in to the Denver area because it's such a great place to live that. And the outskirts, you know, I'm down in the suburbs of Denver down in Centennial. And same thing we were seeing it in a wrap on counties is kind of following the same lines as the Denver county is.

Tina Parks (11m 28s):
So it's just a booming market still. I really don't feel like people are going to get underwater. If that they have to sell it or they want to sell.

Amy Goscha (11m 37s):
Another thing we keep hearing on the news is about like low inventory. Is that still the case? The inventory is a little, yeah.

Tina Parks (11m 44s):
Inventory is like record lows. And again, it's it kind of a combination of this perfect storm where people they're either happy in their homes. They don't want to move, or they're scared that, Hey, where am I going to go next? Which is, it still is a great time to sell. There's still stuff out there inventory though. His at an all-time low. So it's not, it hasn't changed. And I'm looking at some numbers here from, you know, we've just the past few months in real estate. We really look at like the month's supply. Like how many homes could we go and tell you run out of like a month. And we were literally sitting in like 0.5. It was like an average point for months of inventory. That's extremely low. And in the real estate industry, I mean, three to six months is kind of the, the norm.

Tina Parks (12m 25s):
So having the 0.6, six months is crazy.

Amy Goscha (12m 29s):
Yeah. The markets crazy. So let's kinda talk about, you know, I have people come in to my office and, you know, they're looking at getting divorced, which is a major life change. You know, the first thing they think about his, you know, how do I get stability for my kids or myself? And so on of the first things they look at is, should I stay in the house? Can I afford to stay in the house which I do at the house? You know? So I look at all of those scenarios and from the real estate side, I'm sure you meet with people sometimes who are going through divorce, you know, from what did they ask you? What types of questions or they asking you, or, you know, when their talking to you about signing a listing agreement to listen to a hospital?

Tina Parks (13m 7s):
Well, I think first and foremost, they, they really, as you probably know, they can't list it until the divorce is done. And so, like it, for example, I am working with a client right now that they're in the middle of a divorce that they've been married for 44 plus years. And it's, the house has become a major problem for them really trying to figure out what the house is worth arguing about that. And so that's tough. I mean, I, I think for me, you know, I was loved to be able to help folks out with the listing, but in, in my opinion, if folks can stay in their home right now and they're able to buy out their soon to be ex I think that's a great scenario. Or a lot of times they can't do that as I'm sure you see where the house was appreciated so much, even though they don't own anything on it, let's say they own it outright, but a house gets a praise.

Tina Parks (13m 53s):
Now they bought it it way back when for 70, $80,000 in the mid eighties, and now the house is worth upwards of 800 to $900,000. So where does someone get that kind of cash?

Amy Goscha (14m 4s):
Yeah, exactly. And your talking specifically, Tina, about the circumstances where parties don't agree, the list, the house for sale, like divorce, right? Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Tina Parks (14m 13s):
Specifically there, if they agree on the house and great, I think they asked me first then, you know, for me, I try to stay out as much the litigious stuff as I can. I'm not an attorney. I can give my best. Yeah. I was recommended, Hey, you get an appraisal to come in and they give you a true assessment of the house. Unfortunately, right now, I mean, there is a huge appraisal gaps that are going on in the market. I'm not sure, like, for example, it say that somebody's house is on the market just to keep the numbers easy. Let's say they listed for 500,000. Again, it goes under contract for six 90 and the appraiser comes now. It's kinda starting to, to level out a little bit where the comps are supporting that, but every now and then you still get a home where it does an appraise to the under contract price.

Tina Parks (14m 54s):
And so folks are having to come and bring money to the table. And so again, that kinda, there's a great area there. Now with folks who are getting divorced, they get an appraiser most appraisers because of what happened in 2008, 2009 are pretty conservative there keeping up with the market, but it's tough because it's ever changing. And so what did appraise for would have a price for maybe two months ago, maybe a different story. And so there having to keep up with those comps, which is again, kind of creating some contention then between folks of deciding what that house is really worth. And you know, it kind of the running joke and in real estate is what what's a home worth in its whatever one person is willing to pay and in this market right now. And again, I just, the prime example, there is a home, they was trying to get some folks under contract for $1.5 million.

Tina Parks (15m 38s):
And at what under contract for 1.8, six, and it had it probably at about 30 to 40 showings in the first couple of days. And so again, so it's not every home, but if it shows well and that's probably one thing I really recommend too, the people that I live with in one of the things I always offers is helping with a staging. If you are, how shows, well, it always people get really emotional about the home. You usually get top dollar. And so those are the things that I really, I have a crew of awesome gals that I work with that can come in and they could either work with what people currently have and can help kind of declutter. And they do it in a great way. They take that onus off the face. So I don't sound like I'm telling someone that they're a baby's ugly because you know it, which it's not, it's just a matter of like, no, they are experts in that field and that's why I bring them in it because that's, I know what I like when I see it.

Tina Parks (16m 22s):
But if you ask me to go in and declutter for somebody, I wouldn't know where to even start, I won't show you the rest of my office because then you would see how it looks. So my organized chaos, but I think, you know, just having those resources of knowing like, Hey, I have some ladies that I love that I bring in and they, you know, I usually cut for the first couple hours of their services. And then if they want to the folks who are listening, want to have them come on for some longer or bigger project type stuff than we always work through that. Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Goscha (16m 48s):
And I actually talking about decluttering a, you know, that's one thing as the diverse attorneys, sometimes I run into his, you know, we negotiate these agreements that say, OK, the house is going to be listed for sale. One person is going to stay on the house and they have to get the house show ready. And sometimes people don't cooperate, you know? So have you ever, have you ever run into that before? How do you handle that or do you stay out of it in a try to stay as neutral as possible? So I

Tina Parks (17m 13s):
Have to stay neutral, you know, when it starts getting really contentious in that it just, you know, it, you see it on your end. It just makes it difficult for everybody involved. Like a, I mean, I, I try to kind of play that neutral ground and because I have to be a neutral party in, in, in the process, otherwise it just creates all sorts of angst. It's kind of like with the post occupancy agreement, you see, those are kind of the norm right now. So you

Amy Goscha (17m 36s):
Can't explain to people. I mean it, most people I know was there for people that don't explain what that it is.

Tina Parks (17m 42s):
So if someone's listening to their home, for example, an we talked about it a little bit earlier and that they haven't yet identified their next home. They can specifically say, Hey, we're looking at all offers. But if someone puts in a post say, Hey, if you put in that, you'll do a 30 to 60 day post occupancy agreement, basically, meaning that I can stay in the home for 30 to 60 days in basically rent it back. And there was a postdoc and a C agreement that we put together so that people that are selling the property you'd pick a close date, but they still, and then they close it and sell it to the buyer. The buyer now technically is the owner, but the person who owned the home now can live in that house for 30 to 60 days. And used to be that if someone needed that they'd negotiate the rent, but because of the market, most people are able to live in the house free of charge.

Tina Parks (18m 27s):
Like that just is kind of one of the things that people are offering to sweeten the deal as the buyer to be able to win the listing. And so right now it's really is a sellers market. That folks that are needing to cell and they haven't identified their property, it kind of gives them some peace of mind to know, Hey, we can, we'll only take an offer that has the post occupancy agreement that says, Hey, free of charge. I always recommend that people, when they're buying, they do like some sort of security deposit. You know, once we close, I'm not going to leave my folks high and dry, but I really just, from a litigious standpoint, I can't really get involved with how they handle all that really. I usually recommend they taught to an attorney because there's just a fine line. Like, you know, I'm, I'm the one that likes to get in and help as much as I can.

Tina Parks (19m 9s):
But I know we have to be really careful as an agent because we're not attorneys.

Amy Goscha (19m 12s):
Yeah, exactly. So let's talk about just if I'm the parties agreed. Let's do the scenario, were parties are growing through a divorce or they agree to list the house for sale. They sign a listing agreement. Yes. They'll sign a listing agreement with you, or what is the timeframe like now it sounds like a house would go under the market, like under contract really quick, you know, seven to eight days versus the longer period of time from the point that an offer is accepted. Can you talk about what the process looks like to get to closing? 'cause it seems like a praisers are super busy right now. Like what can someone expect for, like, what do you estimate for like the timeframe from under contract to closing?

Tina Parks (19m 53s):
Well, and again, such a crazy sellers market right now that I wish I could tell you that there was kind of a norm. I'll tell you what the norm is pre crazy market to sell, you know, or it is now a normal closing is usually 30 days. That's if someone has alone, it just gives enough time to get all their ducks in a row. You know, a lot of sellers are, it depends on what the seller wants. Really. The seller can truly dictate what they want in an offer. And so right now, if someone's like, Hey, we, we want to get this sold in 15 days. There are people that are out there that come in with cash offers that say, we can close as quick as 10 to 14 days.

Ryan Kalamaya (20m 32s):
This episode is brought to you by our law firm. Kalamaya Gosha Amy. And I describe our law firm as an innovative and ambitious trial team, the pushes, the boundaries to discover new frontiers and family law, personal injuries in criminal defendants, Colorado. We currently have offices in Aspen, Glenwood Springs, Edwards, Denver, and Boulder. If you want to find out more, visit our website, Kalamaya dot law. Now back to the show.

Amy Goscha (21m 2s):
And are you seeing people I'm seeing some circumstances where people or even waiving inspection objection or anything. So,

Tina Parks (21m 12s):
Yeah, so that, and that's becoming the norm as well. Like really the norm right now, from what I've seen is multiple offers on properties. If it's priced right. People come in and they say like on a, on a contract, you'll see. And they've added something new where you've got a inspection objection, and then you've got an inspection termination deadline. And so it really is, you may know that in any contract is very buyer friendly. So contract gives a buyer, quite a few opportunities too, to back out of the contract if they choose, or if there are lots of ways for them to get out of the contract. Now they have to operate in good faith. Like the intention is that there going in to get under contract with the intent to buy. So, but there are numerous points and a contract.

Tina Parks (21m 53s):
And I notice this as a or when I'm writing an offer as well, that I have to be very mindful of how many places I'm putting in those dates to have someone be able to get out of that contract because sellers don't want that to go at a contract. They want that contract to go from being under contract to go into close. And so for example, a lot of the buyers too, right now, I wouldn't say waiving inspection. I would say that that would be not in the, in anyone's best interest. His, I would say if you're going to look at purchasing a property, knowing that it's a sellers market, a major majorly weighted towards a sellers market, you to go in there and say, Hey, I will still do an inspection. I will not do an inspection objection, but I will.

Tina Parks (22m 34s):
I have the right to an inspection. And if I find anything in there, like major like structural issues or a foundation issues that they still have, the buyer so has the right to, to back out. And also it gives the sellers on the right to come back and say, Hey, you know, I know we said that you weren't going to ask for it, an inspection items. However, hae, we didn't know there were some major or electrical or this or that, that anything that comes up in inspection, that is a problem we'll have to be disclosed moving forward. So let's say that someone, a buyer says, okay, I'm not going to do an inspection. I'm not going to ask for the smaller items. I'm not going to do an inspection objection, but they still find something big. Then that's where I can kinda come in and say, Hey, listen, Susie seller and work with the agent and say, Hey, we found some pretty major structural things.

Tina Parks (23m 18s):
My clients do not want to buy it, given that. So we're either going to back out or we do need to negotiate something along these lines. And I think it's just having that open communication with another agent. Those are the agents that are best to work with at, even though in the contract, it says, Hey, we've waived your right. You know, we're going to do an inspection, but we're not going to ask for things. I mean, I'll give you an example, like back in 2012, when the market was still kind of just about to come up with my husband and I, and when we bought our house, I mean, in hindsight, I'm, I'm laughing at some of the things that we asked the sellers to, you know, we ask them to clean the events in the above the gas range. I mean, if you ask someone to do that today, they, they laugh at you. I mean, it, I hate to say it, but you just don't put the things in there that, that aren't major if they're, you know, but major things, if those come up an inspection, you know, people or probably still going to either back out or they're going to have to negotiate with a seller, the seller is going to probably have to fix that unless someone's totally desperate.

Tina Parks (24m 9s):
Sorry. If it goes back onto the market, then that, you know, that has to be disclosed.

Amy Goscha (24m 13s):
So what I was gonna ask you, it was because that inspection, I would assume that that would have to now be disclosed because it's a known or yes.

Tina Parks (24m 20s):
So, you know, illegally, the seller is supposed to, you know, there's a new inspection that came in and they found there was major a foundation or electrical or any kind of issue. They have to disclose that then to the next person that comes along and I guarantee that will still be an issue with any other, so, yeah. So

Amy Goscha (24m 36s):
In that kind of a circumstance, Tina, or are you seeing where the, the sellers are working with the potential buyer to try to make the concession? Yes.

Tina Parks (24m 44s):
I think that that's where the negotiation comes in, or maybe they're not gonna cover the full thing. They decided like, Hey, maybe we'll cover half. That's just where you come down in a negotiation and then really talking to the buyer about, Hey, can you afford this? Or do you have enough cash to come to work with this? Or there's just, there's ways you can do that with a seller concessions. There's all sorts of negotiation. The deal is not done when something like that happens. But I do think that it creates a more unique situation that makes it a little bit more difficult to get to closing. But I think sellers, if they are represented by a good agent will be, will know that, Hey, we've got a, or if we want the deal to go and we have to make sure that we're doing what we needed to do on our end and make sure that it's a safe home for someone.

Tina Parks (25m 25s):
Yeah.

Amy Goscha (25m 25s):
And then I'm guessing that another point of negotiation to try to get to close it is on, you mentioned to the appraisal gap, but you know, and also the lending cause isn't there or an objection where you can object to like the lone, the finance, what does that look

Tina Parks (25m 42s):
There is on the contract where it's basically a buyer can terminate the contract really at any point saying they just don't like the terms of the alone. They don't have to explain why or what they don't like. They can just say we don't like the terms of the loan is, so we are going to, which you're not seeing a whole buyers at this point right now that, or backing out, they are just happy. They are getting under contract. And so it's very, it's a lot more rare to see that happening. I think that's why you're also seeing people in the sell side, tho who are much more interested in seeing cash offers. And, you know, the tough thing is I would really say that nowadays anything that's like $500,000 or below of like a first-time home buyer, someone who's going in that it doesn't have cash or they're competing with a lot of investors that are coming in and pay in cash or people that have the cash or find a way to make a cash offer.

Tina Parks (26m 28s):
So it's definitely tough in that process. Yeah. In

Amy Goscha (26m 32s):
And talking about price points and sometimes you see this, like, is there a different trends depending on the price point right now on the market or is it just all crazy? And even though it was often a little bit, I

Tina Parks (26m 42s):
Would say that you start, that's a great question because I had a scene again, $1.5 million homes where there are multiple offers and it goes $360,000 over the asking price. So it

Amy Goscha (26m 54s):
Sounds like we were all, I mean, it was just her to be

Tina Parks (26m 57s):
Frankly, I mean, and it, it really was priced. Right. I went back and look at the comps from the listing agent and I thought he'd price it accordingly. And again, you get to this position where maybe based on the inventory and what other people are seeing at $1.5 million. So I thought, holy smokes, this house is, you know, on a great lot in a great neighborhood, its completely turnkey. We can move in and not do anything. So it creates that, that frenzy. So I think you're still seeing some, quite a bit of competition even in the million dollar plus considered quote unquote luxury market. When you start moving into the high, probably mid to high one, $1 million range, maybe not as much, but I would say anything under that. Anything from four to $700,000, maybe 800 is probably going to be if it's priced well and it's a good property, it's going to be out of the market.

Tina Parks (27m 42s):
In a matter of days, another question

Amy Goscha (27m 44s):
I have is when your writing an offer or at least on the Divorce side, when we're trying to get houses, the praise, I like the appraisers are just backed up their, you know, it, it's just taking them a while to get appraisals done. Are you finding that like when you're doing an offer, like are you taking into consideration that appraisals are taking longer to get done? Is that effecting really the real his contract?

Tina Parks (28m 8s):
Yes and no, that's it, it, it's a great question. I think when I write an offer, we always have the ability to do in a minute extent. And so when I write an offer, I want it to be as clean and crisp as possible. And I really, I think the first thing I have to do is, is my job to go back to the listing agent and say, Hey, what are, what are your sellers really looking for? Like what's aside from price, what's a solid offer to them. Is it a postdoc embassy agreement? Is it a quick close, is a cash? You know, what do I need to know to help my buyers position themselves the best to get under contract? And then we'll write it, you know, kind of have a, a, a pretty just in the box idea of on a typical, a 30 day close. I kinda know how to back date that firm, the closing date and come back date that to where the appraisal will be.

Tina Parks (28m 50s):
And I usually just still put that data and there just so that it doesn't create any confusion or maybe a red flag for the sellers and then just let them know, say, Hey, listen, you guys know that appraisals are taken a little bit longer. I'm putting this data. And just so that you know that we're serious about this. And if we have to cross that bridge, when we get there and we can't get the appraisal done in time, are you guys going to be okay with an amended extend? And so we always have that ability to do that if we're not going to hit our dates, but for me, it's just making sure that we let the listing agent know that we're serious. And I think, again, it just in a good agent will pick up the phone and call it the listing agent and have a conversation because at the end of the day, it's not us against you. No, it's not that I'm not the sellers agent against a listing agent. We are partners in this and we both wanna see it get to a closing

Amy Goscha (29m 28s):
We were doing with the, you know, a couple of who. So it sounds like when you're listing a house for sale, for someone who was getting divorced, is it a lot of times after the divorce has been finalized or was it in the circumstance of when they're going through it?

Tina Parks (29m 43s):
You know, I think its really, you know, I can probably turn that question to you. For example, one of the clients I'm hopefully going to be working with, you know, they might want to bring it in a neutral third party. I don't know how that's going to pan out, but you know, they don't, they can't list their house right now 'cause they haven't been able to agree on, they haven't been able to come to any kind of agreement on their divorce. And so I guess I could turn that on you and ask as well, look at what point can people sell when they, you know it. And let's say that they're as long, as long as they are not arguing about what that purchase or the listing price will be, then I'm not, I'm not sure where that kind of comes in on your end. Yeah. So

Amy Goscha (30m 16s):
On my end, I mean essentially, I mean you have to agree to let you know, like the marital residence for a sale and we're going to enter a stipulation regarding the terms in normally what we put in the stipulation is the parties agreed a list X property for sale. They're going to high, you know, at hire an agent as the listing agent, you know, they're gonna sign the listing agreement with an X amount of days. You know, they might take the recommendations of the realtor regarding the list price list for production. In a lot of times it's there's disputes. We put it in an arbitration provisions to a higher an arbitrator to essentially arbitrary those disputes because that's frankly the last thing that a court wants to do in the courts or just, you know, there backlog right now with COVID and everything.

Amy Goscha (31m 4s):
It's just, you know, trying to get something like that in front of a judge right away his, you know, in the timeframe where it needs to be done because as you know, with real estate contracts and it's happening fast, like, you know, you have to, if a counteroffer comes in you of a deadline where you have to accept it or right.

Tina Parks (31m 21s):
And if you don't and those deadlines pass, so in the contract is null and void,

Amy Goscha (31m 25s):
Right. And in this kind of market, I mean, cause you know, and you're just never gonna make any headway. So, you know, we are very cognizant about those things and it can be kind of complicated, you know, because you have to kind of cover all those scenarios, but generally the law is that in less you reach an agreement, you know, if it's a marital property, you have to reach an agreement to list it for sale. And if your fighting over whether or not it should be sold or not, then you have to have a judge essentially decide that like who was keeping the property or is it going to be listed, you know, for sale though.

Tina Parks (31m 58s):
Yeah. And that's, that's exactly what I have run into. And this one particular instance where it, they can't, they just can't come to terms with anything. And so it's going to have to go to go on to go to court, which that won't be probably till the next month or, or the month after, depending on, I think they've got a court date set for September and I don't know what the market is going to do. I could give it to them a, a comparative market analysis on the house in real time of what it is in a snapshot like today, but that can change tomorrow or, you know, two-three weeks, it could be completely different than so it's a little bit of a gamble.

Amy Goscha (32m 30s):
Yeah. So I mean, I guess the other thing that's important from the family lawyer perspective that people look at it going through divorce, you know, when they're looking at whether to, in the house, in, by the other person's interests, other spouse's interest in versus selling it is that the law says that if you're going to buy the interests out than you base that off of the fair market value of the house was figuring out of the equity. But then when you go to the list, it for sale, usually both parties have to share the cost of sail. So that is another generation, you know, when your going through divorce, looking at, you know, like if you're going to keep the property, you know, and then you sell it a few years down the road, you know, you don't back out the cost of sale when figuring out what the 50% equity portion is to the other spouse.

Amy Goscha (33m 17s):
I get that question a lot, you know, like in representing, I guess, people in selling their houses or buyers who are divorcing, what are some common questions that you get, I guess maybe it's not just related to people getting to a divorced, but are there any specific questions that are, I guess, unique to, party's getting divorced, that you go to

Tina Parks (33m 39s):
The hardest to you, you brought up at a point with a fair market value. And again, it has such a, a, a tough thing as an agent to really give that opinion. And again, it is just an opinion. I mean, I, I can give my opinion of what I would recommend in my, in my expert advice and what I would recommend someone list a property for, or how much they are willing to put a bid on a property. But you just don't know how that is going to be changing in the next couple of days or weeks or months. It is changing everyday. And you know, the hardest part is, you know, your seeing it's a pretty normal to see an appraisal gaps. And so an appraiser might say, Hey, I appraised the house, it $500,000, but it might be a fair market value.

Tina Parks (34m 19s):
If it went to a market, you might have a bidding war and it gets a bit up to 680. And so that's a tough conversation with people ask like, Hey, if I'm gonna get it, appraised, praisers tend to be a little bit more conservative. I think they, they do a great job of giving their assessment of what it would appraise for it, but we're seeing a lot of appraisal gaps still because the market continues for a long time. We were seeing a pretty big lag of the appraisal gaps because I think everyone was just so dumbfounded with how big of a frenzy the market was. And then it's kind of caught up now that we have more comps to compare, to say, Hey, you know, this house actually sold for quite a bit more. And so now you've had these higher comps, but it still changing. I mean, things are still continuing to appreciate things or we're still selling high.

Tina Parks (35m 2s):
So that's why when people ask me like, Hey, if I don't, what is fair market value? That's a really difficult question to answer because you really don't know until you list it. We can get a ballpark, but we don't know. No.

Amy Goscha (35m 13s):
And I've done this where I ask a realtor as a family law attorney, can you do a comparative market analysis? You know, because maybe the party's don't wanna, you know, or maybe they have multiple properties, then they don't necessarily want to get all these appraisals done just for mediation purposes. But that's probably even hard on the CNH is because you're looking at coms, but then the houses are selling over price. So, you know, so I am sure it's hard, even C

Tina Parks (35m 38s):
A, I guess if you say there overpriced, you know, that really tells you that that's the new market, the new market is really that things are kinda overpriced. And that's, we, we looked at like California and things just kind of kept on going up. And that's just, that's just the reality of what the market is like right now. This is the market. The market is kind of inflated, but it's also appreciating. And so, you know, and I think the most difficult ones or the, the kind of a one-off unique properties where you don't have a lot of comps to compare those to. And I tend to recommend that folks get more than just one competitive market analysis from an agent to see, you know, Hey, someone else might have a completely different opinion if they do there, their due diligence, that it should be very close, you know, because it's all done a very calculated, its not just a, Hey, that's a nice look in her house in this house.

Tina Parks (36m 23s):
Or, you know, I, I, my gut tells me it's this. I mean, we, it's a pretty lengthy process. We go through to really get an accurate amount of what it would sell four. But again, it's just a, it's such a fluid market right now. It's, it's truly difficult to, to nail that down.

Amy Goscha (36m 36s):
Yeah. I'm also thinking about, you know, some questions I get as far as value people will say, well, can we look at it a tax assessment or know, can you explain it the issue with tax assessments in why that's not a fair depiction just in general? You know?

Tina Parks (36m 56s):
Well, it's funny because when you're as a homeowner and I get my tax assessment back in, it's written, you know, a certain amount because based on what the market's doing, you know, I always want to dispute that and be like, well, in that way, you know, it, it can't be you because your taxes go. But at the same time, if I'm looking at it through the lens of a, a buyer or seller, I love seeing it, then it's gone up. But its those assessor there usually very conservative

Amy Goscha (37m 19s):
And based on previous, I mean aren't, they based off of the previous year's data to you. Yeah. It

Tina Parks (37m 25s):
Is. They base it off for a previous year's data and it can, I'm not a huge expert in this. I know that they, they, you know, they do it every two years. I think there's a certain percentage that they can actually go up every year. So they can't, it can't compete with what the market's doing. So no, I never, you know, and, and people ask some times to like, oh, what about Zillow investment? And it does estimate can be all over the board. I mean, I, you, you see, we have a rental property up in the Highlands that has been a great property to have over the last few years. But I look at this estimate and I, I know that the property is great, but I also am realistic. And I think, well, his estimate says like it sell it for this, but I know that I couldn't sell it for that. Maybe I could in this market, I don't know. But you know, they, his estimate, it's just one of those things. And I had a good buddy that worked for Zillow for sometime, no longer as there.

Tina Parks (38m 7s):
And just says, you know, they, they, they do the best job they can. But a lot of that, AI just isn't as accurate. It's not, it can't keep up the speed of how things are changing. And so sometimes it's a really inflated and sometimes it's really undervalued under priced. So again, it, it really goes back to what would one person pay for a property that's really what but something's worth. So at

Amy Goscha (38m 26s):
That AI or, you know, stuff, I mean, I've noticed when, and sometimes I'll look at the minute or however you say it was fun. It's it's like Christmas, you know, but I have noticed with properties that get listed for sale, that the Z estimate goes up, you know, like it will go up just because the house is listed for a certain amount. So it's just, you just can't look at that because it's such a moving target. Yeah. Yeah.

Tina Parks (38m 49s):
It could give you a, a good, solid pseudo baseline. I usually think that there is somewhat kind of on the Marc, but it can range. I mean, sometimes there over or under the inflated by a a hundred grant. So I think it's good to get, you know, a real person to come in and do like a competitive market analysis that someone who, who knows the area in and can pull the number's and really giving an accurate and to be able to drive by and see the property. Because a lot of times, you know, you just, it doesn't take into consideration, maybe what someone's done on the inside of there home. Like I'm sure right now we just did a, we did a remodel on our home, which was, I wouldn't recommend doing that during a pandemic, but we, we did our kitchen and we wrote without a kitchen in it for quite sometime, but I'm sure.

Tina Parks (39m 29s):
And we did pull permits and you know, did what we need to, to do, but I'm sure that it has not been updated yet on say his estimate. Yeah. And they don't know what, what types of materials we did. They, they don't know what kind of appliances we put in. I mean, those are all things that can kind of change the value of your home.

Amy Goscha (39m 46s):
I think kinda to wrap things up. I mean the real estate market is a definitely an exciting right now.

Tina Parks (39m 53s):
It's M it's unique. I'll say it that way. It, it is exciting. I think it's always exciting. It's just like a real geeked up with the real estate and real estate arbitrages and just finding, finding the value. I mean, my big thing I'm teaching my kids is that no one's creating any more land, so, you know, it's there, so they're not making any more of it. So I just, I find it, it being does a great, you know, it, it, it does, it goes up and down, but if you can be in real estate and have some real estate, it always ends up. But to me in the long run, being a good investment and yeah,

Amy Goscha (40m 19s):
And then we didn't really touch on this, but is there anything that you wanted to say as far as like the commercial real estate space right now?

Tina Parks (40m 27s):
Oh man. Yeah. I mean, it, wasn't the pandemic first, you know, hit my husband who is a very conservative and very pragmatic and it has his head on his shoulders pretty good. And he was a really, really nervous about how that was going to impact us just with people closing down. You know, I, I'm not as privy on the commercial side. That's not really where I do a majority of my business, but just as an investor, I do stay privy to what's going on. There has been definitely a decrease in the, the folks who are renting, but I think a lot of the spaces where people are or renting for the essential workers like physicians and dentists and things like that, those are great. The medical office buildings are great investments, but there has been definitely a shift.

Tina Parks (41m 10s):
You know, I think even once the world opens back completely, if we can get through this Delta variant to, you know, I, I think that the spaces changing, you know, and I think people love to go into an office and have the option to do so, but I do think people also are really appreciating a new hybrid type where they can work from home and they can also work in the office and people are still showing that they're able to do so. So I think that the commercial industry will be changing. I think those that are, that are pretty innovative are gonna, and commercial agents that are innovative. You're going to find ways to continue to bring them value to that. And at the end of the day, it's still a land. I mean, I, you know, I think that it it's an asset that whether it, it, you just change the way that that property is used. I think people are going to get creative and find ways to make it work for you.

Tina Parks (41m 53s):
Yeah,

Amy Goscha (41m 54s):
No, that's, I appreciate that. You know, there's definitely people, you know, clients, I have the own commercial real estate and have those questions on the market and where things are. So w what has

Tina Parks (42m 5s):
Been there, have they been to kind of more coming from a place of fear of like, oh gosh, you know, I'm not sure where this is going to go, or have they been more just asking where the market's going? Yeah. They're

Amy Goscha (42m 16s):
Asking where the markets going, but also its more of the circumstance we're maybe they own a business and then they have like a holding company that holds maybe the building that they're businesses in or a storage unit, you know, like that kind of stuff. And so it's more about like all of the money is in the business and the commercial real estate. So how do we actually, you know, divide this up when one person really runs the business and maybe the other person doesn't, but you can't just use the other person, all the commercial real estate because it's so intertwined with the business. So, you know, you don't want to leave one spouse with just a note that secured with assets from the business. So it just gets kind of complicated, you know, on that piece.

Amy Goscha (42m 56s):
So that's kinda more where it says, but the question does come up, you know, if it's not just intertwined with a business, should we sell the commercial real estate? Should we hold it or should we just get it a praise? Yeah. That's,

Tina Parks (43m 9s):
That's tough right now too. How do you value, you know, depending on what kind of a commercial property it is or how does an appraiser come in and value that property? Because you know, if it's a medical office building and maybe a whole different animal than if you're dealing with a commercial space at say like maybe like we're a Google has their space, then they probably own their own, their own space, but it, it gets some of those companies that maybe they were a lot of peoples there still at a 40% have capacity. So that's a, that's a whole nother animal and it's intriguing to me. It's not, you know, it was not my wheel house in particular. It's interesting to me because I think that really does, you know, a lot of people, I think, think of a, a typical divorce you're dealing with just your marital assets. But when you start getting into some high net worth clients, oftentimes, you know, real estate investments are a part of their portfolio then that, that really does at a whole new layer layer to, you know, how you settle that out.

Tina Parks (43m 60s):
Yeah,

Amy Goscha (44m 0s):
Exactly. And that's, yeah, that stuff was fascinating to me to when you kind of get that interplay and not just you know, it can I stay in the marital residence, but you know, we have investment properties in and you can, then you get into the whole tax issue, you know, like when you transferred property incidence of a divorce, there is not a tax issue with that transfer, but you still have to look at the basis within the property.

Tina Parks (44m 23s):
Yeah. Right. If you ever sell that, what or the capital gains is going to be, because that's a lie, that's going to be a liability. Whoever keeps the property, you had to take that in consideration because that's gonna be a liability to have them in the, and S even with a residential. I mean, there's, once you get to it, I think, and I don't know, it might be changing, but I think it's $500,000 in equity, you know, then at a lot of people have that right now. And so you have to take in consideration that tax burden as well. There's a lot of moving parts.

Amy Goscha (44m 49s):
Yeah. So that's another complexity when you are looking at, not only can I afford it, but what are, you know, what are the tax consequences? Does it actually makes sense to sell the house when we were married? So we get the 500,000 exemption versus like down the road in a year or when I'm single and you only get the to 50. Yeah, exactly.

Tina Parks (45m 10s):
Yeah. So there's just, there's, you have to take into consideration all those million parts. And I think for me, when I'm working with, with folks, I really want to make sure that they are working with a great attorney. Like you were, they have the resources for people to, to talk to them about that because I can offer my expertise from a, an agent's perspective, but, you know, I can't really give advice on the tax side of things or want to make sure they have been a great accountant there. They've got a great attorney. It's kind of a whole team that has to work together to help them make the make good decisions.

Amy Goscha (45m 39s):
Yeah. And I mean, the same thing with me, like with, you know, having clients work with the good real estate agent or someone who is like really willing to talk to the other agent, and it has a good rapport to work through the contract, you know, because it's like, you want to see that sale come to fruition, whether or not you're the seller or the buyer M you know, and to get people moving forward. So that's super important. So,

Tina Parks (45m 59s):
You know, and, and I mean, I, I had this mindset for a really long time. I hesitated getting my license for years because, you know, the barrier to entry is not set at a huge high bar. And so, you know, you can have a few really awful agents that ruined it for the rest of you that are really in it to be professional. And it's a full time, you know, we run it as a business and, you know, so I think, you know, you just have to make sure your working with people that can have a good reputation. And for me, I always want to have that good rapport with the agent I'm working with the, whether I'm on the listing side or I'm on the, on the sales side, because your working together or not working against each other, it's not an ego thing. It's about, Hey, what's going to be the best thing that we could do to get this to the closing table and have the deal go through without any complications.

Tina Parks (46m 42s):
Right.

Amy Goscha (46m 43s):
That's super important with Tina. Thank you so much for your time today. So it was a really a fun episode for our listeners out there. Can you tell them your, what your contact information is like if they are looking for a realtor, what are your email on what your phone number is it? How can they get in contact? Absolutely.

Tina Parks (47m 1s):
Yes, you can always reach me by my phone. My direct number is seven to zero to three to four for eight to, and my email is Tina T I N a dot parks, P a R K [email protected] So just full Colorado homes.com, Tina parks, [email protected] Well,

Amy Goscha (47m 22s):
Thank you so much, Tina. We really appreciate you coming on today and giving us an update as to where the market's. So thank you for that. And I look forward to catching up with you soon.

Tina Parks (47m 34s):
I know. Well, thanks for having me. I, I really enjoy talking about this stuff. It's, it's exciting for me, and I really appreciate you having me, so thanks.

Ryan Kalamaya (47m 43s):
Hey everyone. This is Ryan again. Thank you for joining us on Divorce at Altitude. If you've found or tips or insight or discussion helpful, please tell a friend about this podcast for show notes, additional resources or links mentioned on today's episode. Visit Divorce at Altitude dot com. Follow us on apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to it. So many of our episodes are also a posted on YouTube. You can also find Amy in me at Kalamaya dot law or 9 7 8 3 1 5 to 3 6, 5 that's K a L a M a Y a m.law.