Ryan Kalamaya and Amy Goscha provide tips and recommendations on issues related to divorce, separation, and co-parenting in Colorado. Ryan and Amy are the founding partners of an innovative and ambitious law firm, Kalamaya | Goscha, that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado.
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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS ON THIS PODCAST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE. CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE OR AREA TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.
Ryan Kalamaya (4s):
I'm Ryan Kalamaya.
Amy Goscha (6s):
And I'm Amy Goscha.
Ryan Kalamaya (8s):
Welcome to Divorce at Altitude. A podcast on Colorado family law
Amy Goscha (13s):
Divorce is not easy. It really sucks. Trust me. I know, besides being an experienced divorce attorney, I'm also a divorce,
Ryan Kalamaya (21s):
Whether you are someone considering divorce or a fellow family law attorney listening for weekly tips and insight into topics related to divorce, parenting and separation in Colorado. Welcome back to another episode of Divorce at Altitude. This is Ryan Kalamaya this week. I am joined by Allie Phillips. Allie is a financial advisor in Aspen, Colorado. She is a partner and executive vice-president for an investment firm. Obermeyer would after being an investment banker and graduating from Middlebury and staying on the east coast, her husband and her traveled across the country and ended up in Aspen.
Ryan Kalamaya (1m 3s):
We're going to talk about that. And she's been named to a variety of other lists, such as top women, wealth advisors, Forbes, best in state. That would be Colorado, obviously wealth advisors, Barron's top 1200 financial advisors and a whole host of other awards. Allie, welcome to the show
Ali Phillips (1m 21s):
I decided to be here. And I've been really listening to your podcast for the last several months. And can't thank you enough for the information you providing. It's great for your clients. And I just think great for the larger audience as well.
Ryan Kalamaya (1m 32s):
Well, thank you. And you know, in the intro said that we'll talk about your journey to Aspen. And as a former trial lawyer, who used to do a bunch of jury trials, one of the questions that people are always asked in jury trials is how long you've lived in Colorado. And it is insane. How many people say I came, you know, for us the summer and then, or came for the winter and stayed for the summer. So tell us about your journey to Aspen. You went on a long road trip with your husband, as I understand it. Can you tell our audience about what happened and how that trip went?
Ali Phillips (2m 5s):
So I've been in Colorado Aspen now for 17 years, but what happened back in 2004 had been newly married and both of us were working in investment banking, which can be long hours, great work, but incredibly long hours, lots of travel and just had this epiphany that for the next phase of our life, we wanted to do something different. So we were traveling actually all the way to California and then got to Denver and realized, wait, if we move to San Francisco, we're going to replicate the same lifestyle we had back in New York. So let's try something different. So for over the course of two months, visited every mountain town between actually Steamboat was the first one in Canada. And each one looked at, took a mountain bike ride, had a beer, but also really looked at the business directory and said, where could we really sell and have a career?
Ali Phillips (2m 52s):
And for various reasons found ask was, could be the right place, seemed to be a very welcoming community. You could be professional here at a great school system. And so feel so fortunate to have joined Obermeyer at that point in time,
Ryan Kalamaya (3m 6s):
What was the second? What was the runner up of curiosity?
Ali Phillips (3m 10s):
It was somebody. So Idaho is a second, but just felt from a state point of view that Colorado had a little bit more to it. I really liked Denver and I felt Denver had a little bit more vitality than Boise. I just felt that Colorado a little bit more for us to explore. And if it didn't work, nobody would ever blame us for at least trying it for a year who ended up back in San Francisco?
Ryan Kalamaya (3m 29s):
Well, your story is similar to many people that I am meeting here in the mountains, you know, with the pandemic, there has been a huge rush in particular with New York city and other places. So you were ahead of your time apparently, but let's talk about financial advice and your role as a financial advisor before we really dig into kind of your tips and, and other things. How would you describe a financial advisor? What does that mean to you? Cause I know that term is thrown around a lot. So can you talk about the differences of what exactly is a financial advisor and the services they offer?
Ali Phillips (4m 7s):
Great question because you're right. It's one of these terms that's bandied about and nobody really knows that means. And so part of it also really depends on what you're looking for when you're trying to find a financial advisor. So a financial advisor can be anything as basic as just somebody who helps you with investments, you know, what stocks or bonds to buy, but really as the industry has changed and also as clients have changed, it's someone and what we take pride in taking a step back and not only managing investments, but being your financial sounding board, anything financially related, a good advisor should be able to advise you on because the better they know you, the better they can do a good job. And the third thing, which I always highlight it's so managing investments, being the sounding board and being your quarterback, you have a lot of other great advisors, whether it's an accountant or state attorney and you want somebody who's willing to coordinate with them to make sure that everything is planned holistically when they think about your,
Ryan Kalamaya (4m 57s):
So it can be, you know, someone that's helping you pick stocks and bonds, you know, in those investments, but it can also mean buying a house and how much you can afford. Right? Yeah.
Ali Phillips (5m 7s):
And also, should you buy a car, lease a car. How do you want to give to your children over time? How do you want to fund their college expenses? How do you wanna take care of financially dependent parents? All those things really should be covered by a really good financial Beiser and they should be able to give you that sort of level-headed perspective and put things in more of a plan for you going forward.
Ryan Kalamaya (5m 27s):
Let's talk about when you come into play as a financial advisor in a divorce, I often tell people that they never want to call me because it means that they're going through a divorce or with my firm, you know, they're hurt injury or being arrested. But in your situation you have, you know, most of the contact that you have with new clients is during a transition phase, which is very similar to Divorce and that's one opportunity for you to meet new clients. So can you tell our listeners, you know, in terms of that transition with the, and how you come into play when a divorce is ongoing,
Ali Phillips (6m 2s):
I think if you're considering a divorce, get advice early on, the better prepared you are, the more perspective you get just means you're going to be better on the outside first and foremost is I think you have to acknowledge this. It's an incredibly emotionally time and it can be very overwhelming. And so to have somebody who's been with it beforehand, who could put things in perspective for you and be some sort of that your quiet balancing voice is really, really important. I also like to remind people as knowledge is empowering, the more you know about what sort of assets you have, what you feel just to be as a very good settlement. It means that back you'll be better on the other side. And the last thing is don't rush it. We do find people who they just want to get things over with and get to their side so they could start their new life.
Ali Phillips (6m 44s):
And they sometimes given in that case. And so it's really is making sure you have some perspective, you're an advocate for yourself and everyone on your team is an advocate for you at the same time. And having that sort of help along the way is really helpful. And then sometimes it's really okay, just to be upset. It's unfair, it's really difficult. And you want somebody to acknowledge that and to be able to give you some, a little bit of a space to breathe when you need it.
Ryan Kalamaya (7m 7s):
Right. And you know, for listeners to the podcast and Allie, you said you've been listening to the last couple months, you'll recognize that we have a story of Eric Wolf and Melanie Wolf, and they're going through a divorce in that scenario. So the focus is in particular on Eric Wolf's perspective in that story. But, you know, I mean, there's two sides to every story and Melanie has her own. At some point we will be sharing Melanie's story, but is it fair to say that you're most often working with Melanie Wolf in, you know, a divorce and if so, why is that the case? Why are you mostly working with Melanie
Ali Phillips (7m 43s):
Both, but I think in terms of Melanie's case, and this is a little bit, what we pride ourselves in is as a financial advisor, we want to be really approachable. We want to be able to explain things in plain English. So our client Melanie would understand what's going on. Our industry unfortunately has. And so's illegal a lot of acronyms, a lot of in terms of things that if we're able to distill it into things which are common sense, it just makes people feel more comfortable, empowered, and have the competence. That would be fine on the other side. And unfortunately, in terms of a lot of women, sometimes they're very involved in the finances. Sometimes they're not. So if they're not, they need to be able to find somebody who's very approachable. Who's willing to listen to them. Who's willing to do that financial literacy, explain to them, what does it mean in terms of a taxable account or what is a retirement account and how do you think about a 5 29 plan taking all those concepts and actually letting them know you got this, we're here to help you along the way.
Ali Phillips (8m 36s):
And that's someone in terms of a melody would come to us knowing the fact they need somebody to really be there by their side as they go through this.
Ryan Kalamaya (8m 42s):
Right? And so in the Eric and Melanie situation, we're assuming that Eric is financially sophisticated because he's a business owner, but one of the questions he asks is what is Melanie going to do with her, with the money? You know, she doesn't know how you know, to, to manage money. And so that's when Allie, you would come in and in particular at the very beginning, and we'll go through that, that process of, you know, how you can help Melanie understand what the options are, but it's because she might not have played that role in their marriage in understanding what all is going on. Right.
Ali Phillips (9m 20s):
And the good thing about Melanie and a lot of these cases is people are willing to ask questions. And the key thing is, there's no silly question. There's no dumb question out there. And if they're wined to understand, okay, well, where's my income going to come from in the future? You know, how am I going to take care of my kids expenses? What should I do at the house? All of those things are really complicated and sometimes there's not a right or wrong answer, but by giving a perspective and essentially walking them through the pros and cons Melly can come to really good decisions. The key thing is to make sure she feels financially stable. She can live at their means. She know where her income's coming from, and that people who are dependent upon her in the future, that she can really have a good game plan to be able to support them.
Ryan Kalamaya (9m 59s):
Right. And for those that aren't familiar with the Eric and Melanie story, they can go back to episode one or Google it, my last name and Eric Wolf, but Allie. So let's go through a checklist and would happen if Melanie or a woman came to you and said, I don't really understand what we have. And they, you know, I have a divorce lawyer, his name's Ryan or Amy Gosha and, you know, can you help me? What's the process on your end alley
Ali Phillips (10m 26s):
First and foremost, it's looking at, and a little bit in terms of what's the selling going to look like what's the current net worth? What are the assets how's, it can be divided between in terms of Eric and Melanie. And then once we get a sense of what Melanie's cases it's okay, well, you know, this is your new chapter. What's your budget gonna look like? People seem to think budgeting is a four-letter word. It's not, it can be very empowering. You understand hers of what income is coming in, whether it's child support alimony, does Melanie have another business? And then also what expenses are going out, as long as you spend less than you make, you can have those savings over time. So really encouraging her to understand the budget and know that she'll know more in six months than she does now.
Ali Phillips (11m 6s):
So give me a little breathing room, but at least setting up a framework so she can be able to have, make some good decisions. So once you get the budget, then it's, who's dependent on her financially. Who's going to pay for the kids' college education. How's that set up within the divorce settlement and making some, in terms of little incremental changes here to position herself, does she need to help out her parents? So really diving into who's dependent on her to make sure she can understand that she can afford it and make sure that they are actually taken care of in the future.
Ryan Kalamaya (11m 34s):
Well, and to go back to the budget, as you know, Allie, that, you know, when you go through a divorce, there's a process of financial disclosures. And part of that is the sworn financial statement. And, you know, we have kind of how to Episodes explaining what that process is. And it's a judicial form. You can download it on the judo show website, but it essentially distills a party's financial circumstances into their income, their expenses, their assets, and debts. And when people come to us and through the process of divorce, it's hands down their least favorite process. I mean, Divorce in general, is it Sox, but going through and detailing it out. But when people are finished, they often are amazed at the insight that they have gleaned from that people with millions of dollars could realize and often realize that they were overspending over the last couple years.
Ryan Kalamaya (12m 29s):
And that process of figuring out their budget is healthy process for both Eric and Melanie. But you, what you're saying, what I'm hearing you say is that they really have to dig in and you can help someone like Melanie go through her budget in particular, not only just during the divorce, but after the divorce so that they, Melanie can come up with a game plan when it comes to settlement, what she is ultimately going to need. This episode is brought to you by our law firm. Kalamaya Goscha Amy. And I describe our law firm as an innovative and ambitious trial team that pushes the boundaries to discover a new frontier frontiers in family law, personal injuries in criminal defense in Colorado.
Ryan Kalamaya (13m 14s):
We currently have offices in Aspen, Glenwood Springs, Edwards, Denver, and Boulder. If you want to find out more, visit our website, Kalamaya dot Law. Now back to the show,
Ali Phillips (13m 28s):
True neonics suite, in addition to that is just being realistic about it. I think sometimes people find it so overwhelming and they could make it the wrong answer, be as realistic as possible. And know the fact that you want to show you live beforehand. That doesn't mean dictate how you're gonna live in the future, but make sure that you have a fair enough settlement. So you could be able to actually fulfill your own financial desires. So it's one of those being able to be the sounding board through all those different cases, making sure that they're being realistic. And then also as the different terms, come up, giving them the confidence that you're going to be fine and remind them several times through the process is really one of the best things that financial advisor can do.
Ryan Kalamaya (14m 5s):
And I think you can also help Melanie decide in a settlement because sometimes there'll be decisions of, should she get the business or should she get the house? Should she get an investment portfolio? Is there a rental property? And you can help her understand whether or not those assets make sense, not withstanding the value issues, but whether or not there's time and her interest in owning those. And you can help her decide what's going to be right for her.
Ali Phillips (14m 33s):
True. And I'd say the other things which people gloss over a little bit is two things. The tax implications, as well as liquidity. So from a tax implication point of view is if you are able to, for instance, get a retirement account that needs very differently than as if you get income up from our business. And then from a liquidity point of view means, well, if you get that house, that's an illiquid asset. You might have to sell it versus the tourism, it, a rental property, you might be getting income. So making sure that people not only focused on the dollar mouse, but also the taxes, as well as the liquidity, those three factors make sure they really understand in terms of how they're gonna be set up after the divorce going forward when they're independently finished.
Ryan Kalamaya (15m 10s):
Right. Which was a nice segue into one of the common mistakes or some of the common mistakes that you see divorcees make. And one of them is on the, the marital house. So can you tell our listeners about what your observations are? Cause they, you know, we talked about this before the show that this is something that I see frequently happen in, in particular with someone like Melanie Wolfe, where they have an emotional attachment to the house.
Ali Phillips (15m 37s):
Yeah. It's really tough. I mean, it's one of those we understand it's the marital home is where your kids are born. It's where you had to have some of those great early memories, but sometimes it's not the right house for you in the future. And at the end of the day, it's an asset. And almost sometimes it can be really expensive maintain and sometimes it's better off if we sell it, particularly if the kids are older or if you're going to change a different lifestyle. So it's one of those, why don't we say every answer, there's something quantitative having to do with numbers and then qualitative, emotionally, and trying to balance those two. So in most cases, people will maybe keep the house for a year and then really have that good, hard discussion if it makes sense for them going forward. And that's something we encourage them to do. So, so yeah, I would say keeping the marital assets, something that can be really tough, but usually people end up selling it after a few years, once they realize they can use the money for something else.
Ryan Kalamaya (16m 25s):
Yeah. And there's a couple points at least that I think are worth noting. And that is that oftentimes people will keep the house and I have seen it there, there was a trial that I went to the, the, the person, the other party kept the house. And then he realized that he couldn't afford to keep the house and the core value the house. And then he said, wait, you know, I should reduce it by the commission. And there's going to be some taxes owed on the sale of the property. And unfortunately that's just not how it works. So I encourage people to really think long and hard on whether or not they're going to keep that house because under Colorado law, the judge doesn't have to give and often will not give credit or reduce the Christ based on a commission for a realtor to sell it and, or taxes in the event that a parties does not intend to sell it.
Ryan Kalamaya (17m 14s):
So they should really think about whether or not they're going to keep it. The other issue is that, you know, in Aspen, I mean, property prices have raised have increased dramatically. And so there might be an opportunity to use that shared tax exclusion for capital gains because they're married, but then you also have this issue and it kind of goes into the budgeting of, okay, I'm gonna sell my place. I'm gonna make, you know, a lot of money there in Aspen, but Colorado in general, but where am I going to go? And so for you, it's one of your tips is don't make big financial changes, you know, as soon. So can you talk to me a little bit about that tip? It's a little hard, cause
Ali Phillips (17m 51s):
As we know, it's a divorce is similar to when someone passed away, you're still grieving and there's always great advice is that once you figured out what it was and what your lifestyle is going to be, you don't want to make any major decisions for a year. So it's reminding people because sometimes people will go through a divorce a few months later, they're moving somewhere else or they want to try something different. It's a little bit harder melodies case cause she has the kids, but it's really more reminding them. You had a plan in place, allow yourself to grieve, allow yourself to digest and move forward to the next chapter. And then you'll be able to make those informed decisions. So part of being a financial advisor is telling people slow down, no put things in perspective, but remember you had a really thoughtful strategy and to be able to be kind of somebody who keeps them on course.
Ryan Kalamaya (18m 34s):
Well, and you mentioned the difference in taxes with 401k is versus an investment account and a taxable investment account. So talk to me about the tax issues and some of the pitfalls that you see divorcees frequently make.
Ali Phillips (18m 47s):
So if you have a taxable account, which I refer to as a normal brokerage account, what you want to look at is what are the underlying cost basis of the security? So you may look at something and think it's worth a few million dollars, but if you were to sell it, you'd have to realize gains on that. And so that actually kind of reduces the amount of money you're going to get. So it's a little bit almost, not only looking at the full dollar amounts, but looking in terms of what are the implications. If you had to sell the stocks in that portfolio, to be able to afford something in the future and having a more realistic view in terms of what that settlement is. Secondly, is if you do get a retirement account and you're able to special rules in the course of the Divorce is when you take money out, you have to be able to pay ordinary income taxes, which are higher than us.
Ali Phillips (19m 29s):
If you do capital gains. In my first example. So really walking someone through an understanding is, you may think you're getting a $5 million settlement, but if you actually looked down on it, there's quite a few texts are come due. And this is realistically more in terms of what your nest egg is going forward and how your budget should look. And it's one of those we do that in concert with someone's accountant as well to make sure they have that sort of whole advice to make sure they're really thinking through all those different details.
Ryan Kalamaya (19m 54s):
Yeah. And for my experience, you know, talking to someone like Melanie, I can recognize that, okay, we're splitting an investment account. Let's say it's $2 million. If she's going to get that $2 million in investments, you know, you can trade those securities. But if there is these unrealized gains and she's just about to take on a ticking tax time bomb, I would want to know that. And, but to explain why that is, that's where someone like you Allie can really come in and, and also help oversee some of the, the issues that a divorce attorney or at least, you know, a high-end divorce attorney would look into because you know, those issues can, they can really slip through the cracks.
Ryan Kalamaya (20m 35s):
And oftentimes we can figure out if you're talking with, to, you know, high end divorce lawyers, they, everyone understands that no one should get, you know, an investment account that has these unrealized gains. So maybe we divide it and go to a financial advisor like you and say, Hey, divide that $2 million in an equitable manner. So that both parties walk away with the same kind of tax consequences, you know, from that account. And, and those are the sorts of things that I think you can, when going back to your, you know, using plain English with someone like Melanie to help explain that issue in more detail so that they can ask questions. Yes,
Ali Phillips (21m 12s):
No. And it's one of those where it goes back to is it's great to get great advisors. So it's great to get a really talented divorce attorney. It's great to get a good advisor and sometimes people are willing, aren't willing to pay for that extra advice, but it can save them so much in terms of both financially, as well as emotionally in the long run. So it's worthwhile getting somebody who's really well qualified who can think of those things who has the time to, and actually speaks to the language that you understand. And those are the things I would think about or advise when someone's looking for advisor, because it's a leap of faith and they are a little bit intimidated by I'm already paying my diverse Taree. Why should I pay you as well? But sometimes having that great advice is so invaluable because it sets you up for future success. And just remembering that as you're going through this crazy time, it's really worthwhile investing now to make sure you have the confidence in the future.
Ryan Kalamaya (21m 57s):
Yeah. And my observation is that those tax issues, they can really come into play in long-term marriages. Great divorces, Amy and I have an episode on gray divorces, but can also really come into play with separate properties. So if someone inherits a taxable account, I have a case right now where, you know, there's several million dollars at stake, but they've been in stocks since 1945. And you know, so there are some major tax consequences. So when you're looking at that account, it's not worth $5 million, it's worth substantially less. If you consider the tax consequences, then you get into, you know, is it a C Corp or an LLC, or is it individually owned?
Ryan Kalamaya (22m 37s):
So all of those things, that's where I think you can really, you know, walk somebody through and you don't often bill on an hourly basis, do you
Ali Phillips (22m 47s):
An hourly basis as well? Kind of when somebody hires us, they essentially hire us to manage their assets and they get the advice as a tertiary, just part of our delivery model. We really feel that in terms of there should be, there should be no limit to questions because really when you work with clients, you work with them intensely. When they're going through change, you work with them intensely when they're going through divorce or when they're going to selling a business or just inherited something. And then it turns, it becomes more seamless after that. So we would slather spend so much time with someone to make sure they have the right outcome. They understand what the divorce someone's going to be. They understand they will have enough income in the future to support their lifestyle. They know to ha ha handle all the tax consequences. So by rolling up the sleeves and spending that intense time, initially it's a great investment with that client, just knowing that they'll then have the confidence to have a great next shot.
Ryan Kalamaya (23m 34s):
Yeah. My observation is that, you know, Melanie, she often will come into the divorce and say, I know I should understand this. I need to educate myself, but I am never going to be at the level where I can really, you know, manage my investments just on my own. And so you can come in and really help her. But also importantly, through the divorce process, you can answer those questions and, you know, in a divorce lawyer model, most of them are on an hourly basis. We do do fixed fees, but for you, it's, she's not being charged for the amount of time. And you can explain it differently than someone like me can. And they're essentially not paying for that. It's just baked into your, your guys's model, right?
Ali Phillips (24m 16s):
That it's just assuming this is something we need to get to know Melanie really well understand her story. And by doing that span that time, initially we know we could do a good job with her for the decades to come. And so we view that as just parking to no client and really being there for them and giving them that sort of peace of mind with
Ryan Kalamaya (24m 34s):
Now, Allie, let's put a little bit more positive spin on things, you know, what do you frequently see with Melanie on the backend, after a divorce? What are the things that she can look forward to in the divorce? Once it's all over
Ali Phillips (24m 48s):
Foremost is Melanie you're now in control beforehand in terms of when she and Eric, particularly if there was tension, they may have not agreed on the same sort of financial priorities. They may not have agreed in terms of how they should spend their vacations or how they should support their kids or things like that. So she can now enters a take charge, reset, and make sure that how Sheila's going forward is consistent with her value system. And that can be a really empowering thing to be able to have happen.
Ryan Kalamaya (25m 14s):
And what else the other thing would be is in
Ali Phillips (25m 16s):
Terms of charitable, we find quite a few people beforehand, maybe when they were married, they always put charity way off, but particularly if it's an, a, a really good, attractive settlement and cherries really important, sometimes we'll see women in terms of whether it's starting a donor advised fund or being able to give in terms of charities that they really appropriate. Assuming they have enough to be able to sustain their lifestyle, support. The kids support emails, depend on them. They actually really want to give back. And they're more empowered to do that now in terms of when they're post-divorce world. So those are two really positive things. And I guess actually the third is at the end of the day, you want to be able to understand your finances. You want to be able to understand it on your own terms and know the fact that you have that confidence and you may have been intimidated beforehand, but this is the time to at least, you know, have this in terms of much financial literacy as you want.
Ali Phillips (26m 6s):
And I'm really always enjoyed. The key thing for me is when you work with a client, you can see that light bulb going off, they finally get it and they feel like they at least understand. They feel like they're being a great steward of their funds. That to me is a wonderful outcome. And so I do think that's a positive thing of actually managing investments on your own post-divorce, as you can have that sort of success that you perhaps weren't exposed to beforehand.
Ryan Kalamaya (26m 28s):
The, you know, my observation in representing both Eric and Melanie throughout my career, or people very similar to them is that it is really rewarding to see someone like Melanie who, you know, she may want to travel, or there might be a difference of opinion between her and Eric as to providing for the children. That is a frequent concern, especially for moms where I see that they have a different priority or a mindset as to what it means to take care of their children. And so in terms of college or other issues in it, at that point, they can make those decisions and they can make a decision based on their priorities, but, you know, to really go out and do the things, and it could be going back to school, if they that's something that they want to do and you, and you can help them make those decisions on their own.
Ali Phillips (27m 18s):
That's the fun stuff. It's one of those where it's good to be able to talk about investments and make sure they understand income, but really when you get into their values, what their ideas are, their kids' futures, helping the kids with finances over time, making sure that Melanie can have that next career. It's incredible in terms of the satisfaction you get out of that, that, that's the stuff that's always really fun that hers or working with clients, clients are individuals they're cooking a wonderful and allowing them actually fulfill their dreams is incredible.
Ryan Kalamaya (27m 46s):
And Allie for those, you know, Melanie's or other moms, I mean, you're a mom yourself. So, but you can, you know, bring your expertise to bear for the Melanie's of the world, but how can they find out more information about you and, and Overmeyer would.
Ali Phillips (28m 2s):
So we're over by our wood investment council. We have offices and Aspen in Denver. Our team is 24 people strong, and our website is Overmeyer wood.com. And then my email, if somebody wants to reach out to me and I love talking to people is [email protected] AOL.
Ryan Kalamaya (28m 20s):
Well, Allie, thank you for the time. Hopefully we can do this again, and we can dig in on some of the more detailed issues, but until next time, thanks again for joining us on Divorce at Altitude.
Ali Phillips (28m 32s):
Thanks for having Me. I really appreciate it.
Ryan Kalamaya (28m 34s):
Hey everyone. This is Ryan again. Thank you for joining us on Divorce at Altitude. If you found our tips, insight or discussion, helpful, please tell a friend about this podcast for show notes, additional resources or links mentioned on today's episode. Visit divorceataltitude.com. Follow us on apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen in. Many of our episodes are also posted on YouTube. You can also find us at kalamaya.law or 970-315-2365 that's kalamaya.law.