Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law
Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law
Money and Marriage - Screw Love, Are You Financially Compatible | Episode 223
In this final episode of our three-part series on Marriage and Money, host Ryan Kalamaya is joined by Nikki Tucker, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and founder of The FIIRM Approach, to tackle: Screw Love: Are You Financially Compatible? They explore how financial alignment—or lack thereof—can significantly impact relationships and provide practical advice for bridging gaps in financial compatibility.
Episode Highlights:
- Emotional vs. Financial Compatibility: Nikki and Ryan discuss why financial compatibility is often overlooked in favor of emotional connection and why aligning money values can be a crucial factor in marital success.
- The Role of Money Stories: Building on Episode 1, the discussion delves into how deeply rooted money beliefs and habits influence compatibility and create potential conflicts in relationships.
- Debt, Risk, and Saving Styles: Learn how differing perspectives on debt, investment risk, and savings strategies can reveal compatibility gaps and how couples can work to reconcile these differences.
Key Discussions:
- Practical Tools for Financial Harmony: Nikki shares actionable strategies like financial date nights, gamifying money conversations, and using conversation prompts to foster open dialogue about finances.
- Addressing Incompatibility: The episode emphasizes the importance of honest conversations, proactive planning, and engaging financial professionals to bridge gaps and avoid long-term conflicts.
- Principle vs. Protection: A key takeaway is distinguishing between issues of principle (personal preferences) and protection (threats to financial stability) to help prioritize and resolve money disagreements effectively.
Takeaways for Couples:
- Start Conversations Early: Dating, engaged, or married, proactively discussing financial goals, habits, and expectations can strengthen your relationship.
- Explore Compatibility: Tools like financial quizzes or working with financial strategists can help identify areas of alignment and differences.
- Don’t Ignore Red Flags: Address financial red flags early, and don’t be afraid to seek external support from professionals or financial therapists to navigate challenges.
📞 Connect with us:
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• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kalamaya-goscha/
• Phone: 970.315.2365
• Email: mailto:info@kalamaya.law
What is Divorce at Altitude?
Ryan Kalamaya and Amy Goscha provide tips and recommendations on issues related to divorce, separation, and co-parenting in Colorado. Ryan and Amy are the founding partners of an innovative and ambitious law firm, Kalamaya | Goscha, that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado.
To subscribe to Divorce at Altitude, click here and select your favorite podcast player. To subscribe to Kalamaya | Goscha's YouTube channel where many of the episodes will be posted as videos, click here. If you have additional questions or would like to speak to one of our attorneys, give us a call at 970-429-5784 or email us at info@kalamaya.law.
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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS ON THIS PODCAST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE. CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE OR AREA TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.
Welcome to Divorce At Altittude, a podcast on Colorado family law. I'm Ryan Kalamaya. Each week, along with my business partner and co-host, Amy Goscha, or an expert, we discuss a particular topic related to Divorce or co-parenting in Colorado. In addition, we have created a short series of lessons that will take you through the legal process of Divorce and answer your questions from simple to complex. Divorce isn't easy. The end of a marriage, especially when children are involved, brings a great deal of loss and change. We hope these practical tips and insights will help you on your journey to a new. And better life. Welcome back to another episode of Divorce at Altitude. This is the third installment of our three part series on marriage and money. And this topic we're going to be diving into screw love. Are you financially compatible? I am joined by Nikki Tucker our guest, and I encourage people to first check out our episode on. Your partner's money story that was episode one and episode two was why prenups aren't popular enough. We've introduced Nikki before, but to the extent that people haven't listened to that, Nikki, you're a foodie you're amazing. Food is something that is near and dear. Can you maybe talk about your love of food and how that might matter to money in your work?
Nikki Tucker:Yeah I will gladly talk about food, but thanks for having me to have this particular conversation. And I have been in love with food all my life. I'm a widow actually. And so my late husband used to say, you're the only person I know who thinks about their next meal while they're currently eating a meal. Because I just think about food all day long. When I think about food and money, there's close connection because I happen to like amazing food, which typically cost a little bit more money. And whether you're eating really good food or bad food, we know that in today's world, food costs our art. They're outrageous. So if you're grocery shopping and you're trying to be healthier, just be more mindful about what you're putting into your body. That costs a lot. If you have large families, that costs a lot. Or if you prefer fine dining experiences, that costs a lot. So either way, there's a direct connection between money and food and good food makes me happy. And money also makes me happy.
Ryan Kalamaya:I know you're in the Chicago area. I don't know, my wife and I have watched The Bear a series about a Chicago restaurant, and I don't know if you've seen it, but you get into family dynamics fine dining the food takes such a prominent role in that show, but it reminds me of one, topic that we're going to talk about, and that's the difference between emotional compatibility versus financial compatibility. And I think it's fair to say that there is this a priority or expectation culturally that emotional compatibility is far more important. But can you maybe set the stage for that issue? And why maybe make the case for why financial compatibility is underappreciated.
Nikki Tucker:Yeah. So it goes back to this topic around money stories and understanding your own money story and your partner's money story. That just means that on the most basic level, you think about all of your experiences, you think about the motivations that you have, your upbringing, your feelings about money and how that results in how you handle it. And so for you and your partner, When you talk about financial compatibility, you need to figure out where you have similarities and where you have differences. And sometimes they're are, they're minor. This is not a big deal. You don't need to, you're not, no one's money story is ever going to be the exact same, but the differences are nuanced and it's not a, it's not a huge deal. When the differences are major, then you really need to dig into that. And the reason I think that being financially compatible is important is one, on the most obvious level, there is a higher likelihood that you will fight less about money. So if you're on the same page, similar to food, if you both like the same types of food, you're not going to argue about what restaurants you're going to because you like the same thing. So very similar when it comes to money, if your approaches and your values and your motivations and your goals are aligned, then you're going to have less fights about money. So I think that's We can all agree on that. The other thing that I think comes up, particularly when it comes to marriage is thinking about financial compatibility and where you live and how the marital laws in your state can dictate what happens to your money if you get married and the likelihood of fights when you are divorcing. So either way, it requires you to have financial discussions and figure out what's What will be our approach to money while we're dating? What will be our approach when we're living together? What will be our approach when we get married? And if you find that your approaches are different, then you need to have very serious discussions about, and not just one, but multiple discussions, uncomfortable discussions about those differences.
Ryan Kalamaya:I think the, one, one topic that comes to mind for me is I frequently see people that get married and then there could be some sort of event and oftentimes it's some kind of windfall that they create a business idea and that business just goes to the moon. And the people's money stories are the topic of episode one can really inform how they react to that event. And one spouse could just be, you were talking about, you were thinking about your food, the next meal. Often that same personality trait exists in kind of the executive or the entrepreneur who is looking at the next business opportunity. Whereas the other spouse could be saying let's enjoy our kind of the fruits of our labor and, the windfall and those two money stories can really cause, conflict, which is when I, come in to the scene, because people's kind of narratives and their money stories can really cause problems when they don't figure out whether or not they're financially compatible.
Nikki Tucker:Yeah, I think that's very true. And you mentioned the piece about like emotional compatibility. That's still a huge part of financial compatibility because you do have to think about the values and the philosophies that people have as it relates to money in general. And so when you think about investing, let's just use that as an example. Different people have various risk tolerance. So you may be married to someone who is very comfortable taking risk. And they put the majority of their money in equities and not bonds. Or they're like, we're going all in on crypto. And you're like, no, let's stick to S& P 500, right? So when you think about those differences, It is important to figure out why someone has that approach. Fights about money are rarely about you as a person. So they are deep rooted, going back to the money story, likely unresolved issues that they are not aware of, or maybe sometimes they are aware of. But having hypothetical conversations, because you don't know how successful a business will be, you don't know, or maybe you do know, that there's a windfall coming. If you do know, you absolutely should be having conversations about those things. But having proactive conversations and hypothetical conversations to get an understanding, again, around compatibility. It's still going to be connected to emotional intelligence and emotions and experiences. And people say money's neutral. It's not good or bad. And sometimes I'll counter with I see it as being emotional. Money is neutral on its own. But money can't do anything on its own. It requires human interaction and human engagement, and therefore brings up human reactions and human feelings. And so on the surface, sure, it's neutral. But when we really get down into it, it's emotional, good, bad, or indifferent. It can be emotional. So what you said, I completely agree with.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah, the, I think it also shows up, it's kind of money is a proxy for values and judgments, whether it be on experiences or security or other aspects. And one of the, at least from my perspective, the most common difference in financial compatibility shows up in debt, where one spouse is really comfortable. with taking on debt because they're optimistic about the future or they don't understand debt, whereas somebody else might have a completely different viewpoint on debt. And that can really cause some conflict. So can you maybe talk a little bit about, when people are in sync on saving for retirement and avoiding debt or how they Manage their debt when they're, in sync and what financial compatibility looks like in that scenario.
Nikki Tucker:It essentially means that you are working toward the same goals. So when we talk about marriage being a partnership, the intention is for you to have a happy life and reach your goals together as partners. So when you are in sync and you're aligned on how you're going to get there or someone. maybe acquiesces a bit and says, okay, I trust the direction that you that we're heading in. And I'll give you the reins to get us there. Then you're more likely to have a successful marriage. You're more likely to be happier because you're on the same page. The warning, I guess that I would provide there is something called money cloning. And I think this happens for newlyweds or people that just haven't been together a long time, or those that don't have a great sense of awareness as it relates to their money stories or understanding their money triggers. But money cloning is when You're married to someone or you're partnered with someone who has a very dominant personality and you have an easygoing personality and you just want to do whatever, keeps static and fights to a minimum and you end up compromising your own identity or losing your identity. And you assume the money story or the money philosophies or the money habits of the person that you're dating. So if going into debt or avoiding debt is what you all have decided to do together, I don't think that debt is a bad thing if it's used strategically. So that can be a bad thing, but it's very similar to money. Debt is not good or bad. It just depends on how you use it and what you do with it. It can be very productive and very beneficial. Same thing with investing. Investing can be great for some. If you don't do it wisely and strategically, it can be horrible, right? So it's one of those things where I caution people, if you are in alignment, that is fantastic, but just make sure you understand why you're in alignment, that it's based on having similar values and not just someone just giving in and saying, I don't agree with this approach and I hate that we're buying this. Half a million dollar house knowing that we can't afford it, but I'm just going to give it that's you don't want to do that
Ryan Kalamaya:so Talk to me a little bit more about what happens from your perspective Nikki on if you're not financially compatible And how you know, maybe tips on how you can bridge those those gaps it's definitely
Nikki Tucker:an art. It's not a science And so bridging the gap comes down to a few basic things. It's really about making sure that you are okay to have courageous conversations. So being comfortable with being a little bit uncomfortable, always being honest and intentional, but also being patient. If you are not financially compatible, it doesn't mean that you can't fix it. So bridging the gap is it's not only about finding a happy compromise, but it also means that you shouldn't ignore these things because the incompatibility is not going to magically go away. It's likely going to get worse once you do get married. And it will absolutely come up in your divorce. Okay. If you happen to get divorced. So bridging the gap is Either setting up situations where you can have transparent conversations and you're working to find a happy compromise, or you're bringing in third parties. And sometimes people are not aware of modern day resources and professionals that can help you do that. There are money therapists, there are money coaches there, I consider myself more of a strategist because it's about the tactical side of things, but there are people that can tap into the emotional side of things. So similar to, again, going to therapy, but the focus is around the money story and the focus is around compatibility. There should be no shame in Tapping someone in to get help if you need that. And if you think the relationship or the marriage is worth saving and you want to put in the work to do it. But the bottom line is it will require some work. If you're married to someone who likes to eat all the things that you're allergic to, It's going to be tricky, right? So if you are marrying someone or dating someone who approaches money, which is essential to everything that we do in life, it's absolutely necessary. Then it's going to be tricky, not impossible, but tricky to maneuver through.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah, I think of don't sweat the small stuff. So it's, if you have a different perspective on buying Starbucks, for example, every day is that something that should result in a divorce? Hopefully not, but it could be indicative of the differences in that financial compatibility. If Eric Wolf values and says, we need to save and Melanie says I really enjoy my, lattes or, my frappuccinos or whatever your case may be. They need to really figure out whether there is. Some sort of compromise and that's different than we are buying a house and this is how we approach, that particular issue. Nikki, can you maybe the kind of close things out, talk about some practical exercises or takeaways, whether it be a financial compatibility quiz or a financial date night? Can you explain a little bit more about those concepts?
Nikki Tucker:Yeah, so the two simple things I want people to keep in mind based on what you just said about not sweating the small stuff. It's P and P, okay? Is it about principle or is it about protection? So if you take what you just brought up about lattes, okay, it could just be a thing about principle where I think it's frivolous and it's unnecessary and I'm not going to Starbucks every day because I think it's stupid. Protection means to me, are you causing harm? to the relationship. Are you causing instability to our future? If the Starbucks daily is threatening our ability to keep a roof over our heads, keep food on the table, keep the kids in school, whatever it is, if you're paying tuition, all of that, then that's an issue. And that's not something to be ignored. But if it's just principle I wouldn't do it. It's not causing any harm. Then those are the small things that, that you let go from my perspective. And I think the other piece that you said as far as approaches and money date nights, that's what I recommend to clients because it's safe. And it's low barriers, low hanging fruit. If you can figure out a way to create the environment that allows you to have safe and productive conversations, it may take some time, but you can absolutely get there. You can find the happy medium as a couple. If you're not willing to put in that work or your partner isn't willing to put in that work, then maybe you bring in an outside person. But working with. Financial professionals, working with people like myself, utilizing podcasts like this, reading books, taking advantage of all the modern resources, because there is no shortage of them available to people, will absolutely be to your benefit so that you can figure out the tools and resources that are available to you and make sense for you. That could be conversation prompts. That could be, there are card decks out there available where you can turn it into a game. You can gamify anything nowadays. There are a lot of creative things that you can do to make having money conversations more fun. And I just encourage people to do what works for them. Ignore societal norms. That's going to be your biggest benefit, but don't ignore red flags.
Ryan Kalamaya:Well said. Nikki, as always, I really enjoy the conversation. And for those who are interested in learning more, whether it be about their own financial compatibility or pre marital agreements and why, they're not as as popular as they should be or finding out your money story. You reach out to Nikki, we'll have links to her business in the show notes. But that's going to conclude the third installment of our three part series on money and marriage. I hope you have enjoyed it. It's been great to talk to you, Nikki, about marriage. Marriage money and all the different iterations and topics related to that. Thank you again for your time and your insights. I've really enjoyed the conversations.
Nikki Tucker:Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure to chat with you.
Ryan Kalamaya:Until next time, thanks for joining us on Divorce at Altitude. hey everyone. This is Ryan again. Thank you for joining us on Divorce at Altittude. If you found our tips, insight, or discussion helpful, please tell a friend about this podcast. For show notes, additional resources or links mentioned on today's episode, visit Divorce at Altittude dot com. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen in. Many of our episodes are also posted on YouTube. You can also find Amy and. Law or 9 7 0 3 1 5 2 3 6 5. That's aaa.