Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law
Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law
Property Division & Maintenance: How Assets Shape Alimony in Colorado Divorces | Episode 231
Welcome back to Divorce at Altitude with Ryan Kalamaya! In this episode, Ryan is joined by co-host and family law attorney Amy Goscha to explore how property division impacts spousal maintenance in Colorado divorce cases.
Whether you're a high-net-worth individual or navigating a more modest estate, understanding the relationship between property distribution and support obligations is critical. Ryan and Amy unpack how Colorado law approaches these issues and the strategic implications for both parties in a divorce.
Episode Highlights
Property First, Then Maintenance
Learn why Colorado courts divide property before considering spousal maintenance—and how the type, value, and liquidity of assets can affect support awards.
High-Net-Worth Divorce Scenarios
Does $10 million mean no spousal maintenance? Ryan and Amy explain why wealth doesn’t always eliminate support obligations.
Asset Composition Matters
From businesses to brokerage accounts to homes, not all assets are created equal when calculating income and support.
Lifestyle & Location
How lifestyle differences between Aspen and Grand Junction might impact maintenance—and why judges consider reasonable needs and cost of living.
Disproportionate Property Awards
Why courts may prefer awarding a greater share of property to avoid ongoing maintenance obligations—and how that plays into long-term financial planning.
Key Takeaways
• Colorado is an equitable—not equal—distribution state. Property division isn't always 50/50.
• The more property a party receives, the less likely they are to qualify for spousal maintenance.
• Maintenance is based on both need and ability to pay, and judges often consider the type of asset, lifestyle, and long-term earning capacity.
• Financial experts can play a key role in helping determine reasonable needs, passive income potential, and net spendable income.
📞 Connect with Kalamaya | Goscha
• Facebook: Kalamaya | Goscha
• LinkedIn: Kalamaya | Goscha
• Phone: 970.315.2365
• Email: info@kalamaya.law
What is Divorce at Altitude?
Ryan Kalamaya and Amy Goscha provide tips and recommendations on issues related to divorce, separation, and co-parenting in Colorado. Ryan and Amy are the founding partners of an innovative and ambitious law firm, Kalamaya | Goscha, that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado.
To subscribe to Divorce at Altitude, click here and select your favorite podcast player. To subscribe to Kalamaya | Goscha's YouTube channel where many of the episodes will be posted as videos, click here. If you have additional questions or would like to speak to one of our attorneys, give us a call at 970-429-5784 or email us at info@kalamaya.law.
************************************************************************
DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS ON THIS PODCAST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE. CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE OR AREA TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.
Welcome back to another episode of Divorce at Altitude. This is Ryan Kalamaya. This week I am joined by Amy Gosha, my co-host Amy, what are we talking about today? Talking about a topic that's really important about how you divide property, and then also how can that affect spousal maintenance in Colorado? So we have, in divorce cases, we have support issues like child support. And also spousal maintenance. But when, do does property get divided first? And how does that affect spousal maintenance? Because it does in Colorado. It does indeed. And we have talked about this previously, but we felt like it was going to be helpful because I've had several cases recently where, people that, that kind of payor I've represented the payor in the first thing when they came to me for their divorce is, okay, hey I'm cool with dividing equally everything that we've accumulated we've acquired substantial net worth. And let's say that we've got$50 million and am I gonna be paying spousal maintenance? And that is different than maybe we've acquired.$5 million in the marital estate is$5 million. So Amy, are you aware of any case that says that when you hit 4 million or 6 million that Melanie Wolf, she's gonna get fill in the blank amount, that all of a sudden she's either ineligible or definitely eligible for spousal maintenance?
Amy Goscha:The statute says that, like you have to be at least married three years, but that doesn't apply for those high net worth cases. So no, there is no case.
Ryan Kalamaya:So there is nothing, there's no law that says that there is just this threshold. And again, we're gonna get to the lawyer answer of it depends. And so for, people often when, if someone comes to me for a hundred million dollars divorce, I feel fairly confident that if Melanie Wolf is gonna get$50 million, that she's gonna be. Fine with$50 million and can use whatever money or property she's allocated to pay for her reasonable needs. But it, there's not a bright line rule. The statute does not say that if you get X amount in property that you do not get spousal maintenance. But it is the. One of the first questions that, like Eric Wolf, if he is the business owner or he's, the one that is likely gonna be paying because, the real focus is gonna be on his income. And even if he's making significant income, then he, he's gonna be worried about maintenance. And Melanie undoubtedly is gonna ask her attorney, Hey Amy I should get spousal maintenance right?
Amy Goscha:Yeah, because if it's Melanie Wolf who, let's say she stayed at home and took care of the kids and allowed Eric to, build the business, she's gonna say, I. I have no earning capacity now, like I sat here and supported Eric and I've been married this amount of time, I should be entitled to spousal maintenance.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah. And this is, I see this in particular in long-term marriages where people, long-term, generally they're gonna be older. They also might be from different areas. I've generally, I went to, college in university of Virginia, and I played baseball in the North Carolina and Alabama and all over the place and. People from the south generally have a little bit more kind of cultural they're more comfortable with kind of a traditional model. And so there's this kind of perspective that can come up against the law. But, let's first understand property division in Colorado. Amy.'cause we'll get into, first you divide property and how you divide property then will impact spousal maintenance. So let's start from providing the groundwork. Amy, how many times have you been asked? Colorado's a 50 50 state, right?
Amy Goscha:Oh yeah. All the time. And it's my saying, and I'm sure yours is Colorado, is. Not, it's equitable, not equal.
Ryan Kalamaya:The fair is the four layer f word in divorce and someone's definition of what's fair it or equitable can really be up for debate. But. Colorado is an equitable distribution state. Doesn't mean it's necessarily 50 50, but I think the starting point for many people including judges is 50 50. But the factors that go into the equitable distribution is going to be the length of. Merit. Actually the length of the marriage is not an explicit factor under 14, 10, 1 13. In talking with judges when I, do the kind of guidance on financial matters for baby judges over in Vail every year in September without a doubt, they they definitely consider it. I've asked for a show of hands and everyone, even though 14, 10, 1 13 does not say. Length of marriage, it absolutely is something that judges consider. Would you agree with that, Amy?
Amy Goscha:Yeah, I absolutely would agree with that. And also I think like when property was acquired, like people might come into the marriage with property, but if you put it all into a marital residence like 20 years ago, like good luck in trying to prove contribution.
Ryan Kalamaya:Absolutely. So the contribution the, including explicitly in the statute, the contributions of a homemaker. And so I think the judges are they really are gonna, I. Focus on, especially if there are kids involved, if Melanie Wolf was the one that took that, that took the kids to doctor's appointments and, the school, activities, the sports and all of that. That then allows Eric to, grow the business or go to work and general generate, income. And so that those contributions are, evaluated. Certainly, but in most judges are gonna really take that into consideration. But also what, if someone had, if Eric had family wealth before or like the, he inherited during the marriage, those are the things that. Really are gonna be considered. But the value of the assets is really what we're getting at though, is the, if the marital estate, which is gonna include real estate, brokerage accounts, retirement accounts, businesses all of those things, the. Amount that we are talking about will matter significantly when it comes to spousal maintenance, and we'll get into that next, but it bears repeating that how you value property does matter. So if there is a business, if you can have experts. Disagreeing on that, the value of that business. And that can really drive con conflict and disputes in the divorce, but also included in that is the character or the nature of that. Asset that the property, so if we're talking about, for example, a$10 million marital estate and$9 million is in stocks and bonds, that is going to be different than a$10 million estate that is composed of a business that. Eric Wolf owns or is going to be the operator of, and that business is worth$9 million. And like he then doesn't, he can't, just go in and sell or transfer the business to, Melanie. So the character of what the marital estate as well as the value of the marital estate is going to really be important for. Whether Melanie's looking at spousal maintenance.
Amy Goscha:Yeah, sometimes the hardest situations is like the one you were talking about, if the business is the main asset of the estate looking at okay, so Melanie might want half of the business, but how is Eric gonna pay that, out to her Plus, plus support. So that's also what we're talking about and how division of property affects. Support calculations.
Ryan Kalamaya:Indeed. So if we're, if we take that same scenario that we talked about. I think there's a couple rules of thumb. Generally speaking, the larger the marital estate, the less likely there is going to be a need for spousal maintenance. So again, if we've got a hundred million dollars, then Melanie, the reason that she's less likely to get spousal maintenance, irrespective of what Eric. Earns on it because, maintenance is really about future income sharing and maintaining these, a similar lifestyle. And so even if Eric is earning a. 10 x what Melanie does from, his job or whatever it, he receives, then it's a matter of can Melanie with$50 million, can she go and invest that$50 million and generate passive income that is going to be used to pay for her? Reasonable needs in her lifestyle. And that general rule of thumb is the more property that Melanie receives in the divorce, the less likely she is to receive spousal maintenance after the divorce, I.
Amy Goscha:Right.
Ryan Kalamaya:Then we also get into whether there's cash and liquid assets versus illiquid assets and not, I agree with you, Amy is the trickiest situation, so I. E again, if we have an extreme example, if there's$9 million in a business for a$10 million estate and Eric gets that$9 million business, then, what are the kind of potential sticking points for spousal maintenance?
Amy Goscha:Yeah, the sticking points.'cause you talk, when you look at the factors is not just the need of the spouse that's receiving it, but the ability of the spouse who's paying it. So if there's a note that, and when we say note like Melanie has to get her equity out of the business and it's gonna have to come over time if there's no other way to pay it. So it's Eric paying her, likeer X amount per month. That really lowers his ability to pay support in addition. So that's why it becomes so tricky.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah. And when you look at, if you've got a, let's say that we've got a$9 million business and Eric doesn't have. Four and a half when we're talking about an equal division of property. Melanie is owed four and a half million dollars. Then really what we're looking at is a significant amount of and, there's gonna be an in or there's gonna be a promissory note for that four and a half million dollars. And, Eric's gonna have to pay her for the. The note. And so every month he's gonna, and let's say we have a 6% interest rate that is$270,000 in just, interest for the year. So you divide that by 12. And, e even if Eric's earning a significant amount of income, he's got his own reasonable needs. He's got. His living, the rent or a mortgage. And he's gonna be unable to pay for those as well as woody owes on the property and then maintenance on top of that. But on the flip side, Melanie is not, she's not gonna have the money to go and invest the same way. And so we're looking at, it's this kind of sliding skill, but one thing I think people kind of misunderstand or think about is that there's this kind of threshold of that if Melanie is gonna receive a million dollars or$2 million, that all of a sudden she's ineligible. It really is going to depend on, I, is she gonna get$2 million in retirement accounts and she's 45 years old? Why might that matter, Amy?
Amy Goscha:She has the ability to still earn. Whereas if you're looking at, if Melanie was, 60, that would be very different. Because Yeah.
Ryan Kalamaya:And the other thing too is that if she's gonna be given, she, let's say there's a significant in age difference between. Eric and Melanie and Eric has accumulated significant retirement funds and that's what we're really talking about with the marital estate. And she's gonna get$2 million in retirement funds. That doesn't really do much good for her at the age of 45 because she has to wait until she hits 59 or 60, five. Because she's gonna be taxed on that and, yeah. Yeah. We also need to look at the, so we look at the age, we look at the what the composition of the property that Eric gets versus Melanie. And, what about a house? If the house, if Melanie is gonna get a significant, asset in the house, is that asset income producing?
Amy Goscha:Yeah, exactly. And so you'll, that also affects like her income and her need, so we wanna give her income producing assets if we
Ryan Kalamaya:can't. Yeah. So if she receives the marital house and that marital house is, has several million dollars, inequity, that's it's non-income producing, so that's gonna really matter. But if you know she has that equity, then is she likely gonna have a significant mortgage? These are the sorts of things that people really need to understand is, if you keep the mortgage at two point a half percent because. You locked in 2020 or 2021, that's gonna matter. As opposed to like whether she's gonna have to, refinance. You know what people get in the property division really drives the. Spousal maintenance award, but you're also gonna really look at the lifestyle. Why does the lifestyle matter when you're talking about, Melanie gets 2 million versus 5 million versus$10 million in property. I.
Amy Goscha:It also is gonna be like the length of the marriage, but also if there's kids involved, especially like you don't want them having these disparate lifestyles with mom or dad, where like dad, they're jet setting in private planes and with mom, they're taking the RTD bus to things.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah. And I guess one of the points to, to make here is that, two people, or two couples living, at, let's say they have$10 million and you're talking about two different marital states,$10 million, and all things being equal. If Eric and Melanie kind of have this jet set lifestyle, I see this in Aspen where they're flying all over the place. They're gonna West Palm Beach, they're going to st. Arts, they're going to, Costa r Nos Costa Rica. If you're trying to keep up with the Joneses in Aspen, you are spending a significant amount of money. If you have$10 million and you're in let's say Grand Junction or Denver. And you have a very kind of, modest lifestyle. If your friends and family, your neighbor, your neighbors, if they would be just shocked that you had$10 million and it's because you have lived a very unassuming lifestyle. That's gonna really impact. Whether or not, you're looking at spousal maintenance because if Melanie is in Aspen and she has significant housing expenses, but then she's also accustomed to the same or a kind of a rich lifestyle, that's gonna be relevant to whether or not she's, gonna get spousal maintenance. All things being equal to Melanie down in Denver or in Grand Junction where her lifestyle is not the same.
Amy Goscha:I think the caveat too is that, like I always tell clients it's more expensive when you have two separate households hold. So that's also taken into consideration because like Melanie might come to me and say I had X amount to spend at the Prada store. And it's we have to look at also what are the expenses on both sides moving forward.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah. And my observation is that usually what it comes down to is there will be these competing narratives. So Eric will say, Hey, I. I Melanie's getting 5 million or$10 million. And the law does say that and I think it's frequently overlooked. There, there's this kind of, this immediate jump to the guidelines and you get income or you get spousal maintenance. And really people, and I think it's part of it. We, we recorded this episode on the proposed changes to the Rules of civil procedure fairly recently, there's been a fair amount of changes to 14 10, 1 14, and we had an. Zo with Robin Beatty. And you know what? What in essence happened is that the tax. Laws change with respect to maintenance. We had a bandaid that we applied to fix the spousal maintenance statute in Colorado. And it was to account for the taxes and the lack of tax consequences as a result. And, so we have it. And then we also had these advisory guidelines on both income and duration. And really what's gotten lost in the shuffle.'cause the statute's so repetitive. I just recently went through this. It goes you have to go through income once, twice, three times. But like really what's lost in the shuffle is that there is a threshold requirement. And it says that it the court. Cannot award or shoot. It can only award maintenance if it finds that, that the recipient, so Melanie Wolf, if she does not have sufficient property and an inability to prov, like to generate income on her own, like through work to meet her reasonable needs. Then she gets spousal maintenance. And so Eric is gonna really focus on how much property she gets his ability to pay. And like he'll criticize Melanie's cost of living and say things are changing. We cannot maintain the same lifestyle. After the divorce, because we have two households, we have two houses, we have two, gallons of milk that we need to put in our respective fridges. And that, that is the cold reality. There is an element of truth to that, but Eric's gonna really lean on that narrative. And Amy what is Melanie going to really focus on? Irrespective of the property, she really didn't talk about the how much property she gets. No, she's gonna focus on Eric's income. Totally. And, the, her expenses and how, she, she shouldn't have to change her lifestyle. And so you get and really it's like the income aspect.'cause there's often in these, even if, even if there's, 10 or$20 million. They accumulated that and we have dual house dual income households. They are becoming far more popular. And so yes, you could have, what are the circumstances, Amy, if you've got two doctors that have just been stashing money away and they have divided$10 million, is there maintenance in that situation? And if so, why not?
Amy Goscha:Not at all because they're already, I guess the simple answer, they're already on equal fitting.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah they accumulated they, Melanie is a doctor. She can, meet her reasonable needs. And so what we're really talking about is someone that, is a business owner or some sort of executive, Eric often and it we see it far more now than we did when we first started doing this work. Amy is Melanie Wolf is. Out there crushing it and like they've accumulated substantial wealth and there's a huge income disparity. And that absolutely can be considered when you're talking about child support. But really the kind of issue in spousal, maintenance is, are we maintaining the same, lifestyle? And she, Melanie. If she's gonna be asking for spousal maintenance, she's gonna be hyper-focused on the lifestyle and all the vacations and everything that they lived on, and how she will not be able to do that. Whereas Eric, he makes 10 x and just really focusing on those that the, those particular issues.
Amy Goscha:Yeah. One thing I thought the asterisk to this episode is that, like you, there might be a premarital agreement that talks about how maintenance and like waiver of maintenance, but still, if it's unconscionable there, there could be maintenance. But those documents, that contract can guide. Outside of what Ryan and I are talking about which is, under the Colorado revised statutes.
Ryan Kalamaya:Oh, a hundred percent. And I think that, I guess a couple practical things that come to mind is a, in these circumstances, I think it's really important to work with a financial advisor. Especially like Melanie, she needs to understand what is she gonna get? What are her expenses? And you can have an expert come in and say, Hey. Yes, she's going to earn, income. And, we haven't really even touched on this this recent case in Colorado, the Puo case that came out in 2022 or, and it basically says that you can't include income from a brokerage account. And this was for child support when. The parties never really relied on that during the marriage, and that I think really throws a wrench in what we often see, and we've talked about on other episodes too, Amy is like having an expert come in. And they'll say, listen, Melanie's gonna get$5 million. What is she gonna, what's her income going to be? Is it going to be, and it's gonna as a reminder, it's gonna be based on, I. What property she got is their retirement funds. You're probably not gonna include that as income if it's retirement, but if it's, real estate and if it's, personal real estate versus rental real estate. But often what happens is we get into these arguments about stocks and bonds and other kind of private investments. Could she earn 4%? Or 8% because that's gonna materially matter for what her income is. And often that comes down to often that comes down to expert testimony. So bringing in a financial advisor or an expert on that issue, I think is something that people should consider. What else?
Amy Goscha:What I've really focused on recently in my practice is trying to work with a like financial advisor early on in the case, to. Do those financial reports. Because one thing we also didn't really talk about is, and I think we've talked about this on other episodes, but maintenance isn't taxable. But when you're dividing property, you also have to look at the tax consequences of, like a basis in a marital residence, if that's going to Melanie. So I think. Working with that person early on is super helpful.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah, indeed. And I think also having a financial advisor or some sort of expert I've done it where on my own, where you can, as the lawyer if you're representing Eric, is really talking about his net spendable income. And so we've, we had an episode on this with Boris Sobel. But really, and I referenced it earlier, is that Eric, if he earns, a million dollars a year Benjamin Franklin famously said, there's certainties in life and those are death and taxes. So what are the taxes that Eric is going to have to pay? So he's gonna have to pay taxes, he's gotta have a place to, put his million dollar head on, at night. So he is gotta have, rent or some sort of mortgage. What's that? Then there's gonna be some other things in it. If he's a doctor, for example, he might have significant student loans. So yes, he might make a million dollars, but he is gonna be different. If he's paying out, a hundred or$200,000 a year in student loan payments, he's gonna have less money. To pay Melanie each month compared to the same Eric Wolf who doesn't have that same obligation. So really getting into the net spendable income. And that kind of ties in what we talked about at the kind of beginning of the episode, Amy, and that is, I. If there's a significant promissory note for property that Eric owes Melanie$2 million or$3 million, or a significant amount of money, that promissory note is going to reduce his ability. All things being equal. To pay Melanie spousal maintenance. And so Melanie, she should be aware of that and negotiate a longer time period, potentially a balloon payment on the backend and really try to reduce and be mindful of that. I, I. Remember working, he's now retired. But I negotiated an agreement at mediation and I knew that we were gonna have very differing views on spousal maintenance. So I, purposefully I represented the business owner and we got a. Significant promissory note and I compressed it. They wanted a longer term and I said, no, I want to have, a four or five year time period. And it made his ability, my client's ability to. To pay spousal maintenance. It was impossible. Like he couldn't do it. And they didn't realize until after the agreement was signed,'cause we settled at mediation and we're like, okay, we're gonna go to trial on, spousal maintenance. And then once they saw the Calculations of the net spendable income, they realized the impact and they were like, oh my, like he, he can't. He can't pay it. And that I think was just a huge oversight by that retiring attorney. And it's just something that people need to understand. Property really can impact spousal maintenance
Amy Goscha:solutions like you're saying in those cases. I call that at the hybrid approach where maybe you like the person who is receiving maintenance receives more of the. Liquid marital property and then it reduces the maintenance obligation. So there could be like a prepayment of partial and property to make the maintenance obligation a little less. So Indeed, and,
Ryan Kalamaya:and yeah. Most judges we started at the outset talking about equal divisions and whether it was equitable distributions and all of that. One thing that, that we do see is Eric will. Either voluntarily agree or the court will say, I'm gonna award 60% or 55% of the marital estate. To Melanie because then it obviates the need for spousal maintenance. And judges are more likely to do a property division of disproportionate, allocations as opposed to dealing with spousal maintenance. And why is that, Amy? Why don't judges like spousal maintenance?
Amy Goscha:I think for. I talked to one judge and she said it's right in the statute that I'm supposed to divide property before I award spousal maintenance. So it goes back to that threshold kind of argument. But I think also spousal maintenance, if it's always modifiable, if they order it, then they're constantly gonna be seeing these parties back in court.
Ryan Kalamaya:And so there's certainty and the judges, they, their dockets are jammed up. And then it just results in these constant arguments about, okay, Eric's income went down it's gonna go down. Okay? Oh, now it's back up. And what do we do about that? Judges, I think generally are more inclined. I've heard universally from judges, they're more inclined to, do a dis disproportionate allocation or divide property. And so my kind of examples earlier, about 50 million or 25 million and all, those are big numbers. If you're talking about an equal division than that is. Is something that, in and of itself, you can understand, the interest or the return on investments for$25 million. It's a significant, amount. I think you're looking more at the disproportionate allocations when you're talking about$10 million or below. When you're in that range, I think that, really, because they, the rationale, the judges, and everyone's gonna say Eric, listen you're taking a hit, you're getting less than 50%. But especially if Eric is my age, he's 46, he's got, the future to rebuild and he's gonna be able to rebuild a lot faster and over time. Eclipse, Melanie, I. And so this is a one shot deal for Melanie, and that is something that judges, when they consider the economic circumstances, they consider the age and all of those different factors, they are going to look at, a disproportionate allocation in that circumstance. And then, yeah, Eric's gonna say. I'm the one that accumulated this, like I earned this. We're talking about significant wealth. And so those two competing interests certainly clash and judges can disagree about how that all matters. But I think people should understand those strategic considerations in their divorce negotiation and how property. Really impacts spousal maintenance because whenever someone says, am I have to paying spousal maintenance? I always am like it depends. It depends on what you're gonna do in property. I first need to look at the property before I can make any sort of firm opinion on spousal maintenance.
Amy Goscha:Yeah, because whenever someone comes in, they're like, how much maintenance am I gonna have to pay? And how? And it's it depends. So it's hard to, for us to wave our magic wand right then to give an answer. And now I think everyone can understand why.
Ryan Kalamaya:Indeed. Thanks for joining us on Divorce Altitude. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend and we always look for feedback. Shoot us an email. Our info is online and we always appreciate likes or giving us reviews positive reviews, five star reviews online. Wherever you're listening to your podcasts appreciate the support. And until next time this is Ryan and Amy at Divorce Altitude. Thanks for listening or watching this short lesson on the Divorce Ude podcast. If you found this helpful, please leave a review or share with a friend. It does help for others that are going through or thinking about a Divorce in Colorado. If you want to find out more information, Please visit Kalamaya Law or Divorce at Altittude dot com and that's K A L A M A Y A law. Remember, this is educational information, it's not intended to be legal advice. Please consult with an attorney about the particulars of your case. We're happy to answer questions. Feel free to give us a call at(970) 315-2365.