Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law
Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law
Can My Ex Enroll Our Kids in Sleepaway Camp? Understanding Co-Parenting Agreements | Episode 237
In this episode, Ryan and co-host Amy Goscha unpack a topic many divorced or separated parents face: how to navigate sleepaway summer camps. With limited summer weeks, emotional attachments, and high costs, these camps can offer both enriching experiences—and major co-parenting challenges.
🔹 Episode Highlights
Why Sleepaway Camps Spark Conflict
• Time lost with kids during a parent's summer break
• High costs and disagreements over scheduling, location, and tradition
Legal & Logistical Considerations
• Should it be in your parenting plan?
• Who pays, who travels, and who decides?
• Why early planning matters more than you think
When Camps Become Courtroom Issues
• Unilateral sign-ups, relocation concerns, and gatekeeping behavior
• Why judges rarely treat this as an emergency—and how to avoid that road
Creating a Co-Parenting Strategy
• Including clear protocols, dispute resolution, and decision timelines
• How a “Unified Camp Philosophy” can reduce conflict
🔹 Key Takeaways
• Sleepaway camps can benefit kids—if both parents are aligned
• Co-parenting plans should cover summer planning with clarity and fairness
• A proactive strategy prevents stress (and legal fights) later
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What is Divorce at Altitude?
Ryan Kalamaya and Amy Goscha provide tips and recommendations on issues related to divorce, separation, and co-parenting in Colorado. Ryan and Amy are the founding partners of an innovative and ambitious law firm, Kalamaya | Goscha, that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado.
To subscribe to Divorce at Altitude, click here and select your favorite podcast player. To subscribe to Kalamaya | Goscha's YouTube channel where many of the episodes will be posted as videos, click here. If you have additional questions or would like to speak to one of our attorneys, give us a call at 970-429-5784 or email us at info@kalamaya.law.
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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS ON THIS PODCAST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE. CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE OR AREA TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE ON ANY OF THESE ISSUES.
Welcome to Divorce At Altittude, a podcast on Colorado family law. I'm Ryan Kalamaya. Each week, along with my business partner and co-host, Amy Goscha, or an expert, we discuss a particular topic related to Divorce or co-parenting in Colorado. In addition, we have created a short series of lessons that will take you through the legal process of Divorce and answer your questions from simple to complex. Divorce isn't easy. The end of a marriage, especially when children are involved, brings a great deal of loss and change. We hope these practical tips and insights will help you on your journey to a new. And better life. Welcome back to another episode of Divorce of Altittude. This is one of your co-hosts, Ryan Kalamaya. That's me. And I am joined by my esteemed colleague, business partner and lovely co-host, Amy Goscha. Amy, how are you doing today?
Amy Goscha:Oh, Ryan, doing great. I really am interested in the topic that we're gonna be covering, especially for all of us that have kids. You have kids. I have kids. And. I think this topic can really help people as they're going through Divorce. Yeah,
Ryan Kalamaya:so we're recording this in mid-November, and it is on summer camps. It's not on holidays. We have holiday. Episodes on the kind of upcoming holidays. But really we wanted to talk about something that is new to me a little bit. I didn't go to sleepaway summer camp. And we can maybe talk a little bit about day camps versus sleepaway camps, but really what we're going to focus on is sleep way summer camps and how that can either be a benefit or a, a. Point of dispute in co-parenting, Divorce situation. Amy, what are the kind of high level things that we're going to talk about or that immediately come to mind when you hear Divorce and sleepaway camp for kids?
Amy Goscha:I think that parents going through Divorce, they feel like they're losing out on time with their kids. And so I think that sleep away camps. Is particularly important to navigate and to make sure that you're doing it correctly because it's lost time with your kids. But they also have, other benefits that we'll go through. So we just are gonna go through how to deal with them, why it becomes an issue, and points to resolve, those issues for parents moving forward.
Ryan Kalamaya:Growing up, did you go to Sleepaway Camp Sammy?
Amy Goscha:I didn't, but I definitely had friends. And there are, there's a subset of kids in my son's, like grade that go to camps in the summer on the east coast. So it's definitely, something that has been around but I think is more popular even now.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah, it used to be somewhat optional, or at least for me growing up in Lamont in Colorado. I, my best friend went away to Sleepaway camp and he would come back and he would have these kind of different rankings and it seemed like this cult. Type thing. And, but he loved it. And I remember him coming back. I went to the Air Force Academy for sports camps. And my friend and I would go down there, we'd share one of the dorms and then we would walk over to the cafeteria and we'd do, there was soccer and tennis. And, but it was only for a week. And I think that experience is certainly, different than just like a day camp, which is what historically my kids have done. But now I'm getting in my daughter is we're looking at doing a summer camp for her for three weeks in rural Virginia, which is really exciting for me'cause I. Graduate from UVA and it's nearby, and just for her to have that experience. And we'll get into kind of some of those benefits. And, it's one of those things where my wife is like, this is a lot of time away, but when you add onto a co-parenting relationship where, Eric and Melanie Wolf might have a week on, week off, and then how does that impact Eric's time versus Melanie's time? Like we're talking three weeks, let's get into the disproportionate conflict or the points of conflict. So Amy, I mentioned when you've got a three week camp for Eric and Melanie, then one parent is going to have miss out if they're doing an equal parenting time on two weeks. So what are the other kind of issues that. Can come up with sleepaway camps for divorced couples.
Amy Goscha:Yes, time, but also they're expensive. And so when you're getting divorced, who pays for it? Also it can affect, over the summer parents have some extended time with kids for vacations. So the scheduling gets really. It's difficult, like schools now are down to 10 weeks for in the summer, at least most of them. So I think that's part of it. And then just the emotional side that I mentioned on feeling lost out as a parent on that time.
Ryan Kalamaya:And then when you get into the logistics, I'm having to wade into it on my own is okay, who is gonna fly out? Or both of us gonna fly out? My wife is this is gonna be too hard for me. I'm a I you need to do this. But when you have Eric and Melanie and do, does one person take out the, the kids or kid and then you've also do they do the, some, same camp. My daughter's camp is female only, and do they go to the same camp? I think it history here is really, IM important because what Eric and Melanie. Do during the marriage if they've historically gone to the kids, have gone to summer camp, and Amy, I'm sure like the kids that you know are your son's school is, there's definitely this legacy issue where a, a, a. Father or mother has gone to that camp and it's really important. They had just a great experience. I talk about Virginia and my experience there and like that connection to a place and time in, in one's life is not insignificant. And so that can spill over into, Eric or Melanie the parent that doesn't have that connection resisting just. To make things difficult, but how much of a history both during the marriage and what a parent had in their childhood, do you think that comes into play?
Amy Goscha:Yeah, I definitely think so. But I think it comes also down like to control, because I think that's one thing that parent. Not only struggle when they are like in an intact marriage relationship, but also especially like when they're divorced. So I think that it's easy for one, like one parent who didn't have that legacy to be to feel like vindictive about, I don't want my kids to go there because it's not, it's not important. So I think that can incite a lot of, conflict.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah. I think it, one of my observations is as the longer I do this work, the more I'm reminded of the difference in parenting philosophies, generally speaking. People always have different parenting styles and it is. Frequent in Divorce situations is, I wouldn't say that it's a reason for the Divorce, but it's the personality traits that frequently attend a Divorce is that one parent might be more independent focused or they really want to focus on the growth. And they really look at like sleepaway camp as an opportunity for the child to grow and have an independence. And that's a really important thing for that one particular parent. And then the other. Their parent is, I wouldn't say controlling, but they're a little bit more maybe protective or their time with their child is it's, is a matter of priorities. And we see this all the time in terms of, and we have, we're gonna record a separate episode on youth sports and, school and other com components. You see this just in parenting styles of the. Kind of the enforcer versus a little bit more permissive parent. And that really shines and is magnified, I think, when it comes to a, an issue like sleepaway camp.
Amy Goscha:Yeah, definitely. So Ryan, what are some of, like shifting to. The legal aspects. Melanie and Eric are going through a Divorce. And Eric has, they've sent the kids to Eric's legacy camp on the east coast. Like what are some of the, the legal framework items that we need to make sure that people understand.
Ryan Kalamaya:The reality is that, so for example, the judicial parenting plan, it doesn't have on their summer sleepaway camp, there is a point of like summer camp or summer plans or summer vacations. And so oftentimes we will. Get into that. But I think it's one of those things that a lawyer and their client needs to have a conversation about this particular issue. And again, if we have, some, the kids have gone, they went last year and, it was a good experience. Certainly I have some friends where their kid went to a sleepaway camp and they really didn't enjoy it. And that I think is important. But if. There's this history, then you would have an agreement in there. Let's say for example, that they agree jointly. So I think it would be helpful for, Eric and Melanie to explicitly say, we're going to agree to this summer. Sleep away camp. And then they would structure it in a manner. For example the scenario that I gave where there's three weeks that there's a makeup week or that you would account for that, maybe split it so that the parents can work together where one parent is not being disproportionately affected. Then there's gonna be obviously the cost sharing, there's gonna be the travel. Does Eric go out with, the. Child to the East coast or to, with them and then the other parent picks them up so that they both have that kinda shared experience. But the other aspect that we mentioned or implicated at the very beginning of this is that early planning is key. So it's mid-November. Some of these, for example, YMCA camps on the East coast, they're already open and they're already full. And so Amy, I'm sure that you've had the kind of scenario with your son that I have where there's like various day camps, for example that people are, like it's nine o'clock and they, the registration opens and you've gotta be on there. It's like trying to get a Rolling Stones ticket. It's that competitive where the servers are crashing. Just as a funny aside by why. Said, she's a teacher and she said, there's a registration you need to do for a summer day camp in Aspen, and the server crashed. And I'm just sitting there thinking I'm competing against nannies in New York City who are coming, that are registering the kids for a super highly desirable, day camp. But that same thing applies to sleepaway camp. So it's November, it's. December, day camps are typically, it's like March, April, but it happens a lot faster or earlier than many parents. I think expect, or at least the scenario that Amy, you and I think is that there might be a history of. Melanie's always the one that signs up the kids. She's aware of this issue. And so then, Eric May screw it up and he doesn't realize that you've gotta be on this. And so that's one of the things that I think we as lawyers have to be aware of to walk Eric through, Hey, we should have something in there about when do you, do this. And, people from a legal construct, the court does not want. A parent to just unilaterally sign a child up and then, expect the other parent to work around. But anything other things that you can think of?
Amy Goscha:Yeah, I think also the impact like if one parent does unilaterally sign the kid up, then there's sometimes discussions with the kid about going to the camp and that can really place the kid. Squarely in the middle, which is exactly what courts and parents should not be doing. So I think it's that. And then I'll just use my personal situation, like in my parenting plan, it has, we designate everything by May 1st. That is way too late. And so I've learned from personal experience, and we've, at least in my parenting plans that I negotiate, we try to do it a lot sooner. So I think that's a really good thing to take away is to make sure that you just. Have that in your parenting plan, like really early on. I think the thing to weigh against is that sometimes it's hard, to book vacations, but I think as parents you're just gonna have to plan a lot. Like earlier, just takes planning.
Ryan Kalamaya:This is on your radar screen. So for Eric and Melanie, if sleepaway summer camp is a thing or potentially a thing I think that they need to first decide is this like a two week camp or a four week camp? That the difference and really, quite frankly, during the marriage, it's more palatable for a child to go longer, but it's a lot harder to justify that length, that duration. When you have a co-parenting relationship, so if Eric went to Woodbury Forest Sports Camp in Virginia, for example, and that is a four week camp you know what happened during the marriage is, that is somewhat relevant for sure. It's a factor under the four of under 14, 10, 1 24, but. It also, the things change where Eric now is going to, he might not have gone to every doctor's appointment and he's not gonna go to every doctor's appointment in the future, but he's probably gonna be more involved in the doctor's appointments and that change, I think what we've talked about a lot is, it's gonna militate in favor of, hey, instead of a four week camp. It might be two weeks because Melanie certainly deserves to have a summer vacation. And then you've got your other considerations that, really are gonna bump up. And it's just some priorities. So it's okay, we're gonna agree to a two week camp, or a three, three week camp. We're gonna book that. And then we might have a particular protocol, for example, on who selects the camp, a budget limit deadline for proposals. How time is made up, transportation, communication with the child during the camp, which is something else that, we haven't really touched on, but, really have the camp component and then you build the rest of your summer time. Based on that, some that camp that you probably need to be booking a lot earlier than you're thinking about your summer vacations.
Amy Goscha:Yeah. Also is to just have a mechanism for resolving dispute. So something like the parenting coordinator decision maker. I know we talked about that role in a lot of episodes, but just so you're not having to run to the courthouse over. Who's taking Johnny to summer camp or, like resolving those disputes is really helpful in the parenting plan.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah. And if people expect a judge to weigh in on this in a timely manner it is not, it's unlikely that a judge is going to see a sleepaway camp as an emergency issue, and so it's gonna take months and by then the kind of issue has. Been either mooted or is no longer applicable. But one thing I did wanna mention is that you could, one could listen to this episode and be like, why would anyone ever consider a sleepaway camp given the circumstances? There is a lot of research and a lot of things to be said. If, think about if Eric and Melanie have a very contentious relationship and co-parenting and the Divorce is you know, very contentious. Imagine what a sense of relief on a certain level that a child has by going to a lake in the middle of Minnesota or Maine or whatever it is. And I think both parents. Should recognize that there can be, some real benefits, the independence, the resilience certainly the lack of screen time. That's something that my family and I, it's the really a benefit that I've certainly thought about. New friendships. Those are the sorts of things those benefits is something for people to really, consider. Any other kind of unique issues Amy that we haven't talked about already in terms of sleepaway summer camps,
Amy Goscha:I think that also just that some of'em, we've talked to her about, in the United States, but there also might be things internationally as well. Like it could be international travel. No, I think that's probably about it. Just really being clear in the parenting plan really helps in having kind of a dispute resolution mechanism, I think also helps.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah we talked about that, that siblings might want different camps. It's relating to our youth sports episode, there's an issue about do you just go to a general sleepaway camp or do you go to some sort of elite sports, camp. And that kind of relates to the observation that, parents they and typically there's one parent they might think their child is going to be the next. Tani or Aaron Judge in baseball or the next Michael Jordan, that they really think that, and that's something that they're channeling their vicarious sports athletic career through. And, that can really drive the summer camp discussion. But for the day camps. We haven't really talked about the day camps, and I think it's worth, mentioning that, is that typically what we see is, for the older children my, my kids are nine and 11 when we're recording this, is that. A lot of people will have, maybe a 2, 2, 5, 5 or even an alternating week parenting schedule during the school year. And but I would say it's even more common to maybe have a week on, week off during the summer. Just'cause you don't have the transitions the midweek versus the weekend, the lines are blurry. It's just all a weekend for these kids. And so the day camps, traditionally what we see is a parent will sign a kid up for a day camp during their week and then, if they want to pay more than the other parent. Then that is maybe, they might prioritize a sports camp or some other camp that's more expensive, but they have a little bit more ownership over that particular issue or that particular camp because it's during their time. How, what other kind of things come to mind, Amy, on the day camps that are a little bit different than the sleepaway camp? I think
Amy Goscha:the day camp also can be, because parents sometimes want to like, spend time with their kids like in the summer. So maybe one parent might say during the day I don't, I wanna take the kid in, out, out of camp. And the other parent, sometimes will be like I don't think that's good. That's dis disruptive. There are plans where people, don't have the week on, week off. And so one. If it's the 5 2, 2 5, 1 thing that it makes it hard for the like week on, week off camps. But it is easier to plan, like if it's like a Monday, you can do something every single week, on that Monday. So I think just being very cognizant of, the reality of what a kid's life is like in your life is versus like what it looks like on paper. Just really thinking through those things. I think really. Really helps avoid conflict if it's spelled out in the plan.
Ryan Kalamaya:Yeah. And I've seen certainly people where they, total up the total sports camps and then they divide it and pro proportion to the kind of child support worksheet. I've also seen it where one parent will pay for a camp and then the other parent will pay for their camp. And so it's they can. Decide as to how much they want to spend. And they could say, I want you to go for just the morning'cause I need to do some work and this is what you've historically done, or this might be important or it's closer. The other thing that we haven't really mentioned is like the relocation component. Going back to the sleep way camp, there's certainly, I've seen arguments made where, Melanie and Eric are going through a Divorce. And Melanie is like originally from Maine, and she says there's a connection to Maine because the kids have gone to camp there. And so I think judges, if Melanie somehow is trying to drive, that that sleepaway camp to Maine and there's a surreptitious element or motivation that might be a, a consideration. I've certainly seen that. The other issue is that I have seen relocation scenarios where, okay, let's say that Eric is the one that relocates he leaves Boulder. He is gotta go back to San Francisco for work. Traditionally, and the kids remain in Boulder for their school. Then Eric is gonna get the majority of the summers and that kind of. Magnifies what we, the di, the dynamic that we identified on the disparity in the parenting time. So if Eric has the primary kind of time during his summer, it's really going to eat into his time. If the kids go to sleepaway camp, and so that is something I have seen before where, a parent relocates and their kids have always gone to the sleepaway camp. Then you get into this priority. Is it more, is it better to spend time with the parent that they haven't seen nearly as often during the school year? Or is there historical ties to summer camp? Which is the one that's gonna give.
Amy Goscha:Yeah. One thing I was thinking about just education wise is with your kids, my son, like I see in the summer, there's this lag of where they're not learning, they're not in a structured environment, so having to provide some of those things for them, which can be done through, camps sometimes they're not just like sports camps, sometimes they're. Art camps or reading camps, like things like that. So that can be really important to meet the needs of the child to look at that.
Ryan Kalamaya:And one thing I think people should be aware of for whether it's day camp or sleepaway camp is shying away from Johnny, I would let you go to this camp, but your father is not letting you. And that is something where, it gets into the communications. I think it's fair to ask a child, do you want to do this? But it's the kind of that next editorial or kind of sharing a little bit more information about what's going on and what you said. It ties into, there are dispute resolution mechanisms that I think can be helpful. So one thing might be arbitration. One thing could be A-P-C-D-M, but certainly you would want to make sure that PCDM engagement or the scope of the authority. Explicitly contemplated that they had the ability to make this decision if there's a dispute over summer camp.'cause I've seen it where people, they disagree on the day camps and or the sleepaway camps and if they go to an arbitrator, it could just be bam. We're gonna make a decision really quick and there's some real value in that expediency. I think we've covered all of that. After this episode. I, the kind of draw for summer camps, at least for me. I certainly will admit that I am living vicariously through my kids. I would love to just spend three weeks. A lake, do you know, singing Kumbaya around the campfire. For those that are in the thick of it, hopefully this episode has been helpful and you've thought about at least some issues to identify. But thanks for joining us on Divorce at Altittude. Thanks for listening or watching this short lesson on the Divorce Ude podcast. If you found this helpful, please leave a review or share with a friend. It does help for others that are going through or thinking about a Divorce in Colorado. If you want to find out more information, Please visit Kalamaya Law or Divorce at Altittude dot com and that's K A L A M A Y A law. Remember, this is educational information, it's not intended to be legal advice. Please consult with an attorney about the particulars of your case. We're happy to answer questions. Feel free to give us a call at(970) 315-2365.